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Phrases bassists should stop using immediately

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#141
Poop-Loops said:
To me groove is when it makes you want to dance. That's how I always saw it. That's what everybody here has been implying up until this thread came along.
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If you have you ever seen a sea of folks head-banging with their fists up in the air when Maiden is playing "Run to the Hills" live, you may reconsider that statement.

I've seen Maiden a number of times, and Steve Harris' gallop and driving groove caused an arena full of bodies to move. No moonwalking like Michael Jackson, we felt his groove so strongly we had to react physically. Whether it's a mosh pit, disco, or barn dance, a good groove causes people to move. There's many ways to "dance".
 
#143
JimmyM said:
Second, maybe I don't feel like goosestepping in formation with the drummer. Maybe I feel like playing behind the beat, or pulling it a little. Or maybe I feel like ignoring the drummer and playing something completely different than him. Tell me I have to lock in with the drummer and I will tell you to get bent.

"Overplaying is bad." Yes, sometimes it is. And sometimes overplaying is awesome. Does anyone tell Victor Wooten not to overplay? Or Jaco? Or Stanley Clarke? Or any number of the most-respected bassists out there? You need to be conscious of what the song needs, but sometimes it needs some overplaying. So don't rule it out just because some guitarist tells you not to do it so he can be the big showoff. I went through an "overplaying is bad" period once. During this time, I got asked to play on a friend's album. After cutting 3 or 4 songs, she says, "What happened to you? I called you because I wanted to hear some badass playing, and you're playing like you're scared to do anything!" So on the next song I cut loose and stepped all over everyone. She loved it! So sometimes overplaying is just what the doctor ordered.
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Could you post those tracks where you're stepping all over everyone and behind the beat? I'd like to hear how badass that is.
 
#144
It goes back to the original question I asked, what entails "the groove"? Based on various definitions, you could say that Stevie Boy grooves on bass in terms of locking into the music, or you could say that Steve doesn't groove based on the fact that he doesn't play a funk or urban soul oriented style.


Take Joey DeMaio as an example, sans the questionable solos. Does he groove, or does he not groove when he plays bass lines such as in Warriors of the World? He's not slapping the bass or playing "smooth" finger style lines, but then again, he's locking in with the music. We all need some sort of commonality when it comes to defining "groove". Sad, but true.
 
#145
JimmyM said:
I hate these phrases, never use them ever, and I think anyone who does should be kicked in the sack repeatedly:

"The bass has to lock in with the drummer." Get real! First off, so many bassists misinterpret this as only playing when the bass drum plays. Second, maybe I don't feel like goosestepping in formation with the drummer. Maybe I feel like playing behind the beat, or pulling it a little. Or maybe I feel like ignoring the drummer and playing something completely different than him. Tell me I have to lock in with the drummer and I will tell you to get bent.

"It's all about the groove." Yes it is, if you're playing groove-oriented music like R&B or funk. But what about all those other types of music? Groove in a metal song and you're liable to be told to stop playing like a wuss. Groove in an old-school jazz tune, and you're liable to get a lesson in walking bass from the pianist. The phrase should be, "It's all about playing what's appropriate for the music."

"Overplaying is bad." Yes, sometimes it is. And sometimes overplaying is awesome. Does anyone tell Victor Wooten not to overplay? Or Jaco? Or Stanley Clarke? Or any number of the most-respected bassists out there? You need to be conscious of what the song needs, but sometimes it needs some overplaying. So don't rule it out just because some guitarist tells you not to do it so he can be the big showoff. I went through an "overplaying is bad" period once. During this time, I got asked to play on a friend's album. After cutting 3 or 4 songs, she says, "What happened to you? I called you because I wanted to hear some badass playing, and you're playing like you're scared to do anything!" So on the next song I cut loose and stepped all over everyone. She loved it! So sometimes overplaying is just what the doctor ordered.

"Real bassists don't use picks." I dare anyone to ever say that to my face. Quite simply, it's the most ******** thing anyone could ever say to a bassist. And bassists who say that are the biggest retards of all. And if any of you have a problem with me calling you a dufus, then maybe you should consider shutting your yap because you sound absolutely moronic.

"Bass is all about ____________." If you don't fill in that blank with the phrase, "whatever I want it to be about," FU. Don't ever tell me that bass is about what you think it should be. Bass is not about YOUR conceptions and prejudices. If I want a whammy bar on my bass, who the hell are you to tell me different? If someone wants to string his bass an octave lower than usual, so what? If someone wants to play a 25 string bass with a 12 octave range, what's it to you? This lesson got taught to me the hard way when I made fun of someone's 9-string bass before I heard him play it. I prefer 4-strings in standard tuning, but that's just me. Play whatever you want. And leave me the hell alone.

Any of you who wish to add to the list, please do so. Any of you who want to argue any of these things, please feel free to try.
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I TOTALLY AGREE WITH YOU! I've always thought the same way but never bothered to rant....yeah man, all the crap about groove and whatnot. And the countless ******** bassists(who are usually incompetent) who bash pickplayas
 
#146
Brad Johnson said:
That would be your problem, not the word's.
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It isn't a problem, it is how I interpret the word. It is the connotation that the word when used so often brings to me. I really do think people use the word groove for lack of a better term. It means different things to different people.

I like Jamerson's "groove"y playing (your definition, not mine). He was very melodic and rhythmically he could capture the essence of a song and take it to another level.

If Mr. Poop doesn't appreciate the music the same way as you, what are you going to do? Hammer away at the point for a few pages? He has a definition of what he wants to do and who he is and it doesn't include "grooving". Maybe it includes "playing tasefully melodic yet brutal sick bass lines"... maybe that to you is considered "groove".
 
#147
jive1 said:
If you have you ever seen a sea of folks head-banging with their fists up in the air when Maiden is playing "Run to the Hills" live, you may reconsider that statement.

I've seen Maiden a number of times, and Steve Harris' gallop and driving groove caused an arena full of bodies to move. No moonwalking like Michael Jackson, we felt his groove so strongly we had to react physically. Whether it's a mosh pit, disco, or barn dance, a good groove causes people to move. There's many ways to "dance".
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well said.

Poop-Loops said:
don't want to groove. If I started dancing in the middle of a metal show, I'd get my ass kicked.
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well maybe if you were in spandex balet dancing in the middle of a pit. have you ever moshed? that's the dance of metal right there.
 
#150
I do have one prashe i'd like to add to the list in the original post

"i'm pushing the boundries of music"

I absolutely hate when people claim that they are "pushing the boundries of music" i totally get it and respect it when someone else recognizes that you're doing something new and unique, it's a big compliment coming from another. IMO. but I absolutely despise it when I hear one say it about themself. More often than not it's some GC wanker (playing any instrument) using it to justify playing something totally self indulgent and out of context in the middle of a song with no warning.





Poop-Loops said:
You're right. I should just do what everybody else does. That will really push the boundries of music.
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and no i wasn't directing this post at this comment you made earlier, as i've never heard you play. it just reminded me of a few people i've played with before :D
 
#151
studentaccount1 said:
It isn't a problem, it is how I interpret the word. It is the connotation that the word when used so often brings to me. I really do think people use the word groove for lack of a better term. It means different things to different people.
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If "groove" is only what you narrowly defined it, it will be problematic in a discussion.

I like Jamerson's "groove"y playing (your definition, not mine). He was very melodic and rhythmically he could capture the essence of a song and take it to another level.
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I said Jamerson was groove"y... when?

If Mr. Poop doesn't appreciate the music the same way as you, what are you going to do? Hammer away at the point for a few pages? He has a definition of what he wants to do and who he is and it doesn't include "grooving". Maybe it includes "playing tasefully melodic yet brutal sick bass lines"... maybe that to you is considered "groove".
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It makes no difference to me what he does or doesn't appreciate. Many have tried to explain what "groove" might be but he takes up the seemingly illogical position that it's root notes and following the guitar AND Jaco, who did neither. How could it be both?
 
#153
Groove (music)
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
(Redirected from Groove (popular music))
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In popular music groove, used in the sense of rhythm, is a term for metre and its embellishment by a rhythm section. Richard Middleton (1999) describes, "the concept of groove – a term now theorized by analysts but long familiar in musicians' own usage – marks an understanding of rhythmic patterning that underlies its role in producing the characteristic rhythmic 'feel' of a piece, a feel created by a repeating framework within which variation can then take place."

Beyond this generality, the "groove" interpretation technique is widely attributed to James Brown's drummers Clyde Stubblefield and Jabo Starks, traditional Jamaican Reggae and African music, and consists of an interpretation and a syncopation of a binary rhythm in soul music by the rhythm section, even though it has reached many other genres. This particular technique is very well explained and documented in a video from Mike Clark (drums) and Paul Jackson (bass). [Invalid or Expired Link Removed])
 
#156
Poop-Loops said:
Seriously, it's implied that you need to make people dance. That's how I've always heard it refered to, as something that makes people dance. Headbanging is not a dance. It's a more energetic foot tap.
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Implied where? For as long as I can remember "groove" was tied to what the musicians did, not necessarily how the audience reacted.

Geez, even Wikipedia can't tell you what groove is.
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Imagine that.
:D
 
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