Double Bass piano spiccato

[ifg]

hi all...

any tips on getting a clean, clear, strong spiccato playing piano/pianissimo? i've tried playing at both the middle and tip of the bow, and i'm getting too much bounce; seems to be easier right under the hand, but this definitely feels like the "wrong" technique to me.

specifically, i'm playing haydn 45; and in meas. 17-21 i would very much like to drop down to nearly 0 volume without sacrificing the energy/intensity of the passage and the core/fundamental of the note.

might there be a daily exercise one of the teachers on the site could recommend? if it matters, i'm a french bow player.

btw, to any students out there, this piece is just so great... so many fantastic (and interesting) runs, and in some keys you don't usually get to play in. i highly recommend working through at least the first movement as an etude; it's such great fun to get this comfortable under the hand.

thanks in advance to anyone who can help!

 

[mcnaire2004]

Usually the first hit sets the tone when bounce is involved. Once you are going then dynamic control becomes easier. Try having less attack on the first strike. Maybe use less rosin or something.

 

[David Potts]

For Haydn/Mozart quavers (8th notes) that need more body (warmth and length) I use the bow close to its balance point with a shallow carried bounce that tends towards brushing the string (like skipping a flat stone across water?). As the bounce is moved out gradually toward the middle of the bow the stroke naturally becomes more struck in a steeper repeated Vee shape that rotates the bow around the thumb and moves the bow tip vertically a lot. This is more the Italian version of Spiccato and gives a lighter, weaker,and crisper sound that suits, say, Vivaldi and becomes Sautille at higher speeds.

Experiment with the angle of attack and bow length versus where you are on the bow and on the string (contact point) until you find the sound you want. At the balance point its weight distribution will help it travel parallel with itself as it rebounds backwards and forwards off the string. I drop my right elbow so that the bow hold is flatter and I am almost patting the string. You can simulate both the feeling and the sound by brushing the back of your left hand with the palm of your right.

Start the first note on the string and lift into the return bounce to control both the timing and to set up the length of movement, angle of attack, etc. I use the opening of Mozart's Eine Kleine Nachtmusik as the demo of style for my students. On-string 8th. notes are generally not Haydn/Mozart!!

Regards,

DP

 

[ifg]

thanks so much for the thoughtful response david.

apologies, i should have clarified: i'm very much playing off the string as you recommend; at about the middle point of the bow.

the passage is at forte (leaning toward ff) at a relatively brisk tempo for about 12 bars, and then goes subito piano for 2 bars or possibly a touch longer at the same tempo before returning to forte. i'm having trouble maintaining control of the bow (and the same even pulse and tone) transitioning to and staying at the quieter dynamic. the other thing that's suffering is my control of that feeling of forward momentum and urgency; i feel i should be able to get louder and softer without sacrificing "drive."

i'm not familiar with different schools/shadings of spiccato, and i'm afraid i don't know sautille. i'm now fearful that i have designed for myself a sort of "one size fits all" spiccato. or perhaps my spiccato is wrong altogether. sigh.

for practice now, i am going back and forth between loud/soft (a few measures ff, a few measures pp) in repetition at various metronome settings. the transition is still very sloppy.

thanks again for your helpful advice with regard to elbow position!

 

[robobass]

Playing a nice pp spiccato is one of the most difficult things to master. I bet a lot of audition commitee members are texting when you start the Trio of Beethoveen V, which anyone can play, but then they set down their smartphones when you get to letter B, and want to hear if you can make that section truly soft but still maintain a consistent articulation. Besides where on the bow to find it, you should also look at where on the string. Going a bit toward the bridge might help. This is also bass-dependant. I find that stiffer basses tend to allow more control with pp spiccato, but of course you can't set down your bass and pick up a second one when this is called for

 

[Square Bear]

you've mentioned nothing of tilting the hair. that might help, if you are are not doing that already.

 

[JacoStandUpBass]

Tilted hair don't bounce if you're gripping the bow correctly.