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Picked up an Acme Low-B 2x10... I'm so confused!

c3powil

c3powil

Apr 18, 2008
419
301
North of ATL, GA
#1
I'm by no means a professional bassist. I'm a bargain hunter. I try to keep things cheap, but am constantly looking for a great sounding, modular rig. I got an old 1000 watt Crown power amp for 100 bucks, an older 8 ohm Avatar 2x10 for 150, a few pedals I got good deals on... but I was still looking for another cab because one 8 ohm 2x10 pushing 275 watts isn't going to cut it for anything more than practice and the occasional small room type gig.

Being the Frugal, Craigslist fiend I am, I spotted this 4 ohm Acme Low-B 2x10 cab and, recognizing the boutique name, snapped it up for a meager $225. I thought this was a screaming deal. The more research I put into it, though, the more I think that this price is about average.

This has to be the most affordable boutique cab on the market.

After a lot of research, I find that this is not series III, not a series II, but a series I cab. I couldn't find any sort of information on the series 1 from acme... so I emailed him, and he sent me back an old flyer that had some of the specs printed on it, telling me that the series I models were not substantially different than the series III.

Now that you know all this, I have a few questions.

1. Why are these things so cheap if they are considered "boutique", "full range", "compact", 'throw out your studio monitors', "indestructible" quality cabs? I'm not complaining. I'm just curios. If there's anything my years surfing classified adds had taught me, it's that if something seems too good to be true, it most likely is.

2. Mr. Lewis seems to think that the early series I cabs, are not different enough from the later series III cabs in order to make any kind of difference. But it occurs to me, that if this were true, they would not have been designated as a different series. Am I wrong? Maybe you folks experienced with these cabs would be able to enlighten me on some of the perceived differences that perhaps Mr. Lewis did not consider to be substantial.

3. How much wattage does this thing need?!?!? Man this kills me! I come from a line of thinking that the amount of wattage a cab is rated for is the maximum amount that the cab can handle. But yet I see that many people, and even Mr. Lewis himself, recommend putting two or three times that amount into these amps, even going so far as to suggest that they sound better with more power. Can someone explain this to me?

4. Finally, I plan to use this in my rig together with the 8 ohm avatar 2x10. Since the Acme requires more power, perhaps it makes sense that I should use it in stereo mode. 450 watts going to the acme, and 275 going to the avatar. Or, would it be possible to bridge the amp into the two cabs?

Thanks for taking the time to read this, and any responses given.
 
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#2
c3powil said:
1. Why are these things so cheap if they are considered "boutique", "full range", "compact", 'throw out your studio monitors', "indestructible" quality cabs? I'm not complaining. I'm just curios. If there's anything my years surfing classified adds had taught me, it's that if something seems too good to be true, it most likely is.

2. Mr. Lewis seems to think that the early series I cabs, are not different enough from the later series III cabs in order to make any kind of difference. But it occurs to me, that if this were true, they would not have been designated as a different series. Am I wrong? Maybe you folks experienced with these cabs would be able to enlighten me on some of the perceived differences that perhaps Mr. Lewis did not consider to be substantial.

3. How much wattage does this thing need?!?!? Man this kills me! I come from a line of thinking that the amount of wattage a cab is rated for is the maximum amount that the cab can handle. But yet I see that many people, and even Mr. Lewis himself, recommend putting two or three times that amount into these amps, even going so far as to suggest that they sound better with more power. Can someone explain this to me?

4. Finally, I plan to use this in my rig together with the 8 ohm avatar 2x10. Since the Acme requires more power, perhaps it makes sense that I should use it in stereo mode. 450 watts going to the crown, and 275 going to the avatar. Or, would it be possible to bridge the amp into the two cabs?

Thanks for taking the time to read this, and any responses given.
Click to expand...
The following ramblings of mine are worth every penny you put into them, so reader beware! Still, I think I can muster up one or two useful-ish insights:

1) They're very good at what they do, they're three-way cabinets with well designed true crossovers and custom drivers; but they're also verrry inefficient, and the low-end extension is often more than the buyer bargained for. A lot of flipping ensues, hence the relatively low used prices. Let's see, I covered "boutique" and "full range"; "compact" they sort of are (but the tradeoff is efficiency as mentioned). "Indestructible" I don't believe they are. TBer @KJung once mentioned they're not the best choice for heavy slapping at rock band levels: since you need a lot of power to get them to be audible, while they're relatively robust (and they're tailored to not self-destruct with all the bass they can reproduce) pummelling them with crazy-arse transients is not a good idea. As for them being able to replace PA cabs or even studio monitors, I defer to the owners' knowledge;
2) Look for an ACME club here and ask connoisseurs for details on the revisions - if you aren't satisfied just ask Lewis for details;
3) Um, I suppose the actual advice is to connect them to an amp rated for more power than the cabs are; which is not the same as putting that actual power in them all the time. The speakers are evidently able to take at least some peaks, so a powerful amp, just not run nearly at full throttle, is likely to give you the clean volume you want. Of course, should the continuous power exceed their rating they can and will toast as any cab will;
4) All the time? While the following might be seen as a waste of the capabilities of a full range cab, I'd use the ACME as a sub in those gigs. Meaning I'd find an active crossover (unless your power amp already has an onboard one) and put it between your pre and the Crown: lows on one channel, then to the Low B2, highs to the other -> Aggie. Experiment with the xover point for best (subjective) results.
 
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#3
The average buyer won't purchase something called "Acme" because they think it comes from the same catalog that Wile E. Coyote shops from, so prices for the older gear deflate a bit. Only us "In" people know about them.

The difference between series 1 and 2 was the addition of Speakon connector and doing away with the aluminum side rails. I believe series 3 are covered with Duratex instead of rat fur. I don't think Andy has found a compelling reason to change the rest of his winning recipe. A change in series number also seems to designate when he introduced new models, such as the Flatwound and Full Range in series 3.

It is a power hungry beast. I'm feeding it all 600 watts from my Genz Benz Shuttle 6.2 and it seems like it could take more. As part of his design, Andy traded efficiency for fidelity.
 
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#4
I never really dug the acme cabs I've played and gigged.
It's tough but when reading about gear online it's easy to get impressed if you listen to a few people who really love the stuff- you really gotta dig deep and pay attention to the negative reviews.
flip it and look for something more your style- maybe a used Berg??
 
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#7
My first decent cab was an Acme Low B 2x10 series I. I powered it with a carvin R1000 and played a Yamaha 5 string. Here is how amazing that cabinet was: I auditioned for a classic rock band when my skill level precluded me from even thinking about such a thing. It was almost embarrassing. However, the cab saved me. The band could not stop talking about my tone. They LOVED that cab. They were picking it up, playing my bass through it, you name it.

I was like a guy that can't drive showing up to a local parking lot grand prix in a Lamborghini.

I can't say enough good things about that cabinet. However, now that I've played in quite a few genres for 18 years, I'm not sure it would be the cabinet I'd want for classic rock or pretty much any other kind of "hard/metal/etc." rock. For Jazz, pop, Peter Gabriel, or anything else that is "nuanced", these things are superb, though. And it's not that they would not be good for classic rock, it's just that they are overkill. It would be like driving a Lamborghini to work every day. Get a used Honda or Chevy and you'll be fine.

But if purity of sound is what you want, and your footswitches, etc. can bring the various tones you need, it's hard to do any better. I'm thinking of getting another one for my southern gospel band.

And the series I cab, IIRC, cost less than $400 new. Acme had not yet truly been "discovered".


If you are wondering what ever happened to mine, it was stolen. And by then the price had gone up too much for my tastes. Wanna sell yours? :D
 
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#8
I liked the sound of my series 1 B2. It had its issues though. The mid-range on mine stopped working may be due to overuse of the attenuator. The grill rusted despite never being exposed to water, just due to humidity in the air I guess. And finally one of the woofers blew, due to overpowering I presume.

At that point rather than repair and recone I moved on to a different product. Which I'm still using today.
 
#9
RoadRanger said:
Besides the inefficiency (which is why folks horribly overpower them) I've read they have more of a "bedroom" tone - AKA sound great solo but don't sit in the mix well. A HPF (if your amp doesn't already have a suitable one) should tighten it up if you like it otherwise :) .
Click to expand...

You read wrong.... I play 2, B210's and I've never played a cabinet in 35 years that sits in and cuts thru the mix as well as the Acme's. Switching to these was like taking a blanket off my sound. I use an Eden WT800 and put only 400 watts into each and they are the cleanest, most articulate cabs I have ever played. No HPF necessary.

Sell the Avatar and get another Acme. Stack them vertically.
 
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#10
abarson said:
The average buyer won't purchase something called "Acme" because they think it comes from the same catalog that Wile E. Coyote shops from, so prices for the older gear deflate a bit. Only us "In" people know about them.
Click to expand...

...and here I was wanting to buy one because I thought it came from the same catalog Wile E. Coyote shops from.
 
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#13
c3powil said:
I'm by no means a professional bassist. I'm a bargain hunter. I try to keep things cheap, but am constantly looking for a great sounding, modular rig. I got an old 1000 watt Crown power amp for 100 bucks, an older 8 ohm Avatar 2x10 for 150, a few pedals I got good deals on... but I was still looking for another cab because one 8 ohm 2x10 pushing 275 watts isn't going to cut it for anything more than practice and the occasional small room type gig.

Being the Frugal, Craigslist fiend I am, I spotted this 4 ohm Acme Low-B 2x10 cab and, recognizing the boutique name, snapped it up for a meager $225. I thought this was a screaming deal. The more research I put into it, though, the more I think that this price is about average.

This has to be the most affordable boutique cab on the market.

After a lot of research, I find that this is not series III, not a series II, but a series I cab. I couldn't find any sort of information on the series 1 from acme... so I emailed him, and he sent me back an old flyer that had some of the specs printed on it, telling me that the series I models were not substantially different than the series III.

Now that you know all this, I have a few questions.

1. Why are these things so cheap if they are considered "boutique", "full range", "compact", 'throw out your studio monitors', "indestructible" quality cabs? I'm not complaining. I'm just curios. If there's anything my years surfing classified adds had taught me, it's that if something seems too good to be true, it most likely is.

2. Mr. Lewis seems to think that the early series I cabs, are not different enough from the later series III cabs in order to make any kind of difference. But it occurs to me, that if this were true, they would not have been designated as a different series. Am I wrong? Maybe you folks experienced with these cabs would be able to enlighten me on some of the perceived differences that perhaps Mr. Lewis did not consider to be substantial.

3. How much wattage does this thing need?!?!? Man this kills me! I come from a line of thinking that the amount of wattage a cab is rated for is the maximum amount that the cab can handle. But yet I see that many people, and even Mr. Lewis himself, recommend putting two or three times that amount into these amps, even going so far as to suggest that they sound better with more power. Can someone explain this to me?

4. Finally, I plan to use this in my rig together with the 8 ohm avatar 2x10. Since the Acme requires more power, perhaps it makes sense that I should use it in stereo mode. 450 watts going to the acme, and 275 going to the avatar. Or, would it be possible to bridge the amp into the two cabs?

Thanks for taking the time to read this, and any responses given.
Click to expand...

You really, really need to search some of the many pre-existing Acme threads here. I can assure you, every one of your questions has already been answered, many times over, years ago, and probably in far greater detail than anything you're likely to get in this one thread. :rolleyes:

MM
 
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#14
Well here's my take to part of your question. The Acme cab is one of the very oldest "high end" cabinets designed specifically for bass. It was time when if you wanted high end you could get an Eden at a nice store or mail order an Acme. Due to its impressive time on the market, many are going to be available used. As for the price, I don't think they've ever been particularly expensive new. Therefore you wouldn't expect them to be that expensive second-hand.
 
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#15


I would be very surprised if the Acme pairs well with the Avatar. IMHO $225 is a decent price if the speaker is in good condition.

I believe other differences between series I and series II that have not been mentioned:
1) Audax discontinued either the original tweeter or midrange...a different driver was selected for series II but the sound is virtually unchanged.
2) The crossover and attenuators were updated to increase reliability.

I believe people tend to either love or hate Acme speakers. I had a series I. I thought it sounded great for some genres but it was not capable as getting loud as I needed on some gigs without clacking the woofers from over excursion. I think the clacking occurred when pushing the Acme with an amp rated for about 800 watts continuous.

In particular I thought the Acme sounded nice for string bass, both bowed and plucked. Not a great choice for slap or other bass guitar styles that require hyped mids, highs, or lots of punch. I also found it was a bit difficult to hear the mids from the cabinet unless it was leaned back somewhere between 35 and 40 degrees. As I typically run sound from the band stand, I used a tilted Acme for both bass and vocal monitoring. In this role the Acme was run off an aux from the mixing board. The Acme matched up pretty well with vocals, horns, and keyboards pushed through a pair of Electro Voice SX300s and an acoustic drumset. The band played jazz standards so volume was fairly low.

I sold the Acme to a friend who played string bass. He liked the sound and size but decided he did not like the weight. Now he normally runs an EA Whizzy 10, but occasionally brings the Acme out.

I miss my Acme and regret that I never had a chance to play a pair vertically stacked.
 
#16
I have a pair of series I and a pair of Series II B2s. The only difference between them is the outside metal strapping. Plain on the I pair and black on the II plus a SpeakOn. I did modify my series I pair and replaced both phone jacks with SpeakOns. It was a simple modification.

My amplifier is a tube pre I built feeding a 2KW Carvin Class D amp. I use a pair of cabinets in a vertical stack to gig with. I run one 4Ω cabinet per side for about 500W each full out. This is a level I never reach ‘cos it’s simply too loud. The cabinets are rated at 350W each.

These cabinets are not at all like “regular” bass cabinets. Yes they are inefficient but power to compensate is cheap these days. They'll reproduce a Low B like it’s mothers milk. They tend not to complain when over driven but too much power will result in creased cones and thus the end of the woofers.

Re-cone kits are not available. Andy is, however, a very supportive guy and will supply replacements at a nice price but you will need to return the faulty drivers.

I have lost three drivers in the years i’ve owned my B2s. One I stuck a screwdriver through when changing out the protection lamp. These lamp are now old technology having been replaced by self resetting Polyswitches. I’ve only had to replace one lamp when feedback, using the cabinets for PA, blew the lamp. The other two over nighted in my van in -32C temperature. I set up at the gig and dropped a loud low B into them and cracked a driver surround in each cabinet. That was a long night and not a good lesson!

How they work with pedals I don’t know ‘cos i rarely use them.

Mixing in a non Acme cabinet I don’t think will work too well. The difference in efficiency will be simply too great. Two of them are, in a word, sublime! :D

That’s all that comes to mind. If you have more questions please feel free to ask them. :)
 
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#18
c3powil said:
1. Why are these things so cheap if they are considered "boutique", "full range", "compact", 'throw out your studio monitors', "indestructible" quality cabs?

2. Mr. Lewis seems to think that the early series I cabs, are not different enough from the later series III cabs in order to make any kind of difference. But it occurs to me, that if this were true, they would not have been designated as a different series. Am I wrong?

3. How much wattage does this thing need?!?!? Can someone explain this to me?

4. Finally, I plan to use this in my rig together with the 8 ohm avatar 2x10. Since the Acme requires more power, perhaps it makes sense that I should use it in stereo mode. 450 watts going to the acme, and 275 going to the avatar. Or, would it be possible to bridge the amp into the two cabs?
Click to expand...
Answers:
1. Cheap because someone needs money and the economy is not in great shape.
2. Andy made improvements along the way. Got 2 Series II and 2 Series 3 here, I hear no difference.
3. See below. Your 475 is a useful starting place. Run your amp stereo. If possible, get small stereo EQ to put in it. Run the ACME side flat and use the Avatar EQ to boost mids/highs IF you need to in order to "cut" through the mix more. I use Seismic Audio 4x8's and an SWR Henry(8x8) for large stages if needed. I'd rather accidentally destroy one of those than an ACME. Example(I listen to my ears, not the "you can't mix cabinets" people):
OutdoorRigFXd 102508.JPG


NOTE: The ACME "sound" does not lie. What you hear is exactly what you(bass+amp+preamp+ability) sound like. You can't hide much if you have finger noise, fret buzz, horrible tone settings, or simply poor technique.

About Power:
IF you power the ACME at over its "rated" wattage, ANDY and Johnny Crab strongly suggest you put some sort of compressor and/or limiter in your chain. Signal path here is Line 6 HD500X->SansAmp(used to tune the Line 6 to the cabinet being used since there are many here)->dbx 166xL->QSC2402. Putting about 725 watts available in front of the ACME's and no, I do not let anyone else use my ACME gear(the late bassist I replaced did use it at anniversary gigs but I kept a close eye on him). Vertical stacks are very nice.

About pedals:
With the ACME and, if supplemented with the Avatar, you'll hear what your pedal does.....exactly. They work fine with pedals, 99% of the time(gigs) my preamp is one big pedal(Line 6). The also work great without the pedal(i.e. SansAmp->dbx->QSC2402 rack rig only).

Start here:
Acme Users Unite!!!
 
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