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Pickup builders

bassestkkm

Gold Supporting Member
May 31, 2012
927
831
SoCal
A quick question. I'm aware that a lot of you have bought off ebay a punch counters with reed switches for your winder machines. How fast do you try to get them. Is 20 hz too slow to keep up with a sewing machine?
Would 100hz be better?

I bought this singer class 15 replica and have it working as needed, but I don't have a counter yet.


ImageUploadedByTalkBass1407617208.763476.jpg
 
A quick question. I'm aware that a lot of you have bought off ebay a punch counters with reed switches for your winder machines. How fast do you try to get them. Is 20 hz too slow to keep up with a sewing machine?
Would 100hz be better?

I bought this singer class 15 replica and have it working as needed, but I don't have a counter yet.


View attachment 459779

You can attach your magnet to the thing that holds the needle, and mout your rees switch to the base of the machine. I doubt you will need a fast switch
 
Sounds good thank you

You can attach your magnet to the thing that holds the needle, and mout your rees switch to the base of the machine. I doubt you will need a fast switch

Is there any way to better control the speed of the machine Mine seems to have only two speeds fast and very fast with the pedal
 
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Bassestkkm:

Personally, I recommend that you rig up a mechanical counter, rather than mess with a magnetic-triggered electronic counter. I'm a pro builder, and I've been building my own pickups for years. I built myself a nice custom automatic-feed coil winder, and I went with a mechanical rotary counter on it because it's simple and absolutely reliable. You need to have count numbers that you can trust.

The type of counter that you want is called a rotating-shaft mechanical counter. The one I have on my machine is from McMaster-Carr, p/n 1697T64. It will run up to 10,000 rpm. You can make a bracket for it and direct-couple the shaft to the handwheel of your sewing machine, or mount it off to the side with a timing belt drive.

You do not want one of the ratcheting lever-action style counters. That will never run fast enough.

An electronic counter is another option, but it can be tricky to get the triggering to work reliably. Most pickup winding is done in the range of 1000-1500 rpm, and magnet-triggered reed switches can be problematic in that speed range. Most of the winders that I know who went that route eventually switched to an optical-trigger system. That will handle the speed, but requires some more electronics to interface with the counter. You should go to the Music-Makers/Pickup Winders forum for more info on that subject.

About controlling the motor speed: Sewing machine motors are small Universal type motors, which means that you can control their speed by lowering their voltage with an adjustable resistor. That's what the pedal is. Yes, they have poor resolution and run the machine faster than you want. You can wire in a standard rotary Lamp Dimmer in series, ahead of the pedal. That will be your Coarse speed control, which you use to slow down the overall speed range. Then the pedal can be your on/off/ramp-up control. Most Lamp Dimmers are rated for 1200W, which is enough for one of those little sewing machine motors.
 
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The reed switch in my winder works fine. My winder will spin faster than the switch and counter can handle, but at that point it will send the bobbin flying across the room. I got the reed switch out of valve at work, and the counter out of an old panel at work. I was going to use that same mechanical counter, but in the end my reed switch was fast enough.

9fa80e7b-e01b-4cad-aea4-471a33b8c3ed_zps13069163.jpg
 
So I got the thing running smoothly. I'm just having some trouble getting the counter to work. I'm not sure if I'm wiring it wrong or not.
I picked up this counter. Does 100 counts/sec so I know it should be accurate. However I can't get it to count for the life of me. It has 4 terminals. The two on the left are for power + and - and the other two my guess is, is for the trigger. It didn't come with instructions and it only show the power ones going in in the pictures. What is my best method to test if it is winding?

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So I got the thing running smoothly. I'm just having some trouble getting the counter to work. I'm not sure if I'm wiring it wrong or not.
I picked up this counter. Does 100 counts/sec so I know it should be accurate. However I can't get it to count for the life of me. It has 4 terminals. The two on the left are for power + and - and the other two my guess is, is for the trigger. It didn't come with instructions and it only show the power ones going in in the pictures. What is my best method to test if it is winding?

Invalid Link Removed

Take a picture of the sticker on the terminal block. I may be able to help you out, but the picture on the website has writing across the part I need to look at.
 
I was fiddling with it earlier and figured it out. The first terminal was for positive power in the next one was the negative, reset, and counter. The third was the count and the last when needed was the reset when you connect the other end. A little odd but it works just fine. I'm at about 1,000 winds per minute
 
Okay. I'm bringing this thread back to life since I'm gonna be actually doing this part of my build pretty soon here. I'm doing guitar humbuckers if that matters at all. I've searched and researched the anatomy of the pickup and have a little manual that should be a good guide. I like Alnico 5 in the bridge and Alnico 2 in the neck and I think I'll be winding with 42AWG wire. Now I think that's the easy part.

I know Stewmac, AllParts, and Mojotone sell bobbins and flatwork. In your experience is it easier to buy parts separately or the entire kit all at once for the first few. This is something I'm just doing for myself so mass orders are a bit out of the question. At the same time I'm trying not to spend a million dollars.

Next two things I am concerned about are wire and guide. I've heard some people keep the spool on the ground and have guides to the pickup. This seems logical but I'm not sure. In my head its like a roll of toilet paper. The roll sits in its stand and then goes over a guide or two and then to the bobbin. Is my logic right? Thanks for chiming in.
-Kish
 
Magnet wire is wound onto the spools in a particular way, and it must be unwound from the spool in the same way: By pulling it straight off the end, in line with the axis of the spool. The spool stays stationary and the first wire guide should be right in line with the hole in the spool, 6-12" away.

Don't try to unwind it like a roll of toilet paper. It will twist up and break. I know this from experience. That's how I thought it should be when I was first starting to wind pickups. I even built a nice low-friction roller stand for the spool. It was a dramatic failure.
 
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Magnet wire is wound onto the spools in a particular way, and it must be unwound from the spool in the same way: By pulling it straight off the end, in line with the axis of the spool. The spool stays stationary and the first wire guide should be right in line with the hole in the spool, 6-12" away.

Don't try to unwind it like a roll of toilet paper. It will twist up and break. I know this from experience. That's how I thought it should be when I was first starting to wind pickups. I even built a nice low-friction roller stand for the spool. It was a dramatic failure.
Ouch sounds like a bad time and thank you for the warning.
So am I correct in that the spool should sit on one end and the wire will unravel itself as I use it?
Also as you say 6-12" away means that it goes from spool to the guide through which wire is fed into the bobbin in that space?
 
Yes, the spool should sit stationary on one end, and the wire will unravel itself around one of the flanges. Most winders mount the spool vertically, with the wire coming up straight off it. But it doesn't have to be vertical. In my winding rig, I have the spool mounted almost horizontal, tilted up about 10 degrees. I made a wooden holder bracket with a wood dowel sticking out. The spool sits on the dowel, and the wire feeds off the end, unwrapping itself around the flange. My guide/tensioner sits about 12" in front of the spool, roughly lined up with the dowel. I'm using the large 5 lb spools. For little 1/2 lb or 1 lb spools, it should be 6" or so. From there, on my rig, the wire goes forward another 8" then wraps around a Delrin pulley, which is the guide that mechanically traverses side to side. Off the pulley, the wire only goes an inch or less and it's on the bobbin. That's how I built mine, but you can arrange the wire routing other ways to fit your workbench.

The key thing is that you need to have some kind of first guide out beyond the flange of the spool, lined up with the center. As the wire unwinds, it whips around in a cone shape. As you wind at 1000 rpm and beyond, the centrifugal force can swing it around in a big circle if that first guide is too far from the spool. If swings around too wide, it can get tangled or caught. Some guys use a plastic funnel as that first guide, mounting it so the wide end is about even with the spool flange.

You can mount your tensioner device right there at the first guide, or further down the path. I made it all one unit, because I wanted to keep the overall wire path length short. You can see the general arrangement in these pictures. That's the spool in the background at the right.

IMG_2999B.jpg IMG_2462B.jpg

Related tip: Always check the flange of the spool to make sure it's smooth all around. Nicks, cuts, or molding flash can snag the wire and break it.
 
Back when I used to wind a few pickups, I glued a little magnet to the flange of my homemade jig, and used a hall effect sensor cable tied in place. I found it was super easy to get working. (But then again I'm an electronics guy.) And extremely reliable. I dust off the winder from time to time and it still works fine. My counter is a digital one that I built from a kit 15-20 years ago. Its circuit has a logic input with debounce. A logic pulse is simply when the voltage rises above 2/3 of the (usually 5volt) rail. And that's exactly what the hall effect sensor does every time the magnet goes by. I only usually wind at around 8-900Hz because the jig is very homemade ;), but without wire, I've cranked it up way higher than this and the counter never misses.
 
Okay I think I can work with this. I'm thinking about ordering a couple kits from mojotone. They always seem to be out of stock :/ I think I will use Remington Plain Enamel 42 awg wire. It seems to be the standard for just about everything. If I get a 1 pound spool I think I should be able to make my Humbuckers and a set of Jazz pickups for my next build. I'm having a little bit of a dilemma at this point. I can either
1. Use the sewing machine and figure out a way to mount the bobbin. I've been suggested double sided tape and a magnet. Both make me nervous if I'm completely honest. And the sewing maching has a kind of bounce from all the mechanical components. I think the wooden cabinet is a little old and useless. Is this something I should look into repairing before winding? The bounce makes me feel like it might kick off the bobbin or break the wire. I think it would be a good project and possible increase resale if I ever decided I needed some money. I'll look into the fix. It shouldn't be the whole thing. Its pretty sturdy except the bounce.
or
2. Use a drill mounted to a board. Rudimentary but I like the idea of a nail through wood into the chuck.

Anyways let me know your thoughts. I will try to fix the sewing machine either way so the mounting the bobbin part is the only main concern. :)