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Double Bass pickup for loud music!

#41
kurt said:
So I think I'll stick to using a real bass when I can. I still can't figure how guys like Dave Holland do it with a carved bass and loud drummers though....
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Now, I don't play rockabilly, but I've been playing with loud drummers and bands my whole career and rarely have feedback problems. I've primarily used Underwood and Stat-B PUs. I think the worst case is when the house stage monitor mix comes back at you, so I'll find the best angle for that cab. I never put the bass through the monitors either unless someone a good deal away from me needs it. Getting your personal rig off the floor can help also.
 
#42
There is a huge difference between Dave Holland/Nate Smith loud and Rockabilly loud. Wanna talk about STOOPID loud. Unfortunately feedback problems end up having to do with things like subs under the stage, where the soundman is crossing over the bass sound, how painfully loud the monitor mix is. This is why I've mostly given up on playing DB is rock clubs.
 
#43
Yeah, I guess if you're talking slayer loud good luck. I play in a country band and we play lots of clubs, arenas and festivals but our stage volume isn't too loud. Surprisingly clubs are often the worst environment. I thought arenas would be until we started playing them.

Clubs are the worst because the stage is often too small and you're wedged in between the subs and the drum monitor. And if it's packed the people are blocking the subs cause they're usually on the floor so the sound guy can't hear them and they end up cranking the bass. And the house system usually sucks. I can still get a good tone in extreme environments if I put some foam in the f holes.

A couple times in clubs that probably double as a dance bar, at soundcheck I noticed that it sounded like there was an octave pedal on the bass. When I asked the house guy about it he said "yeah there is a sub harmonic generator on". I guess they like that for the dance mix? What a nightmare for upright! Has anyone else encountered this?

By the way, you don't have to get a crappy king bass to get an upright that amplifys well. My Wilfer ply is a great bass, the neck is almost identical to my carved Wilfer so it plays great! It sounds good too, it's just a lot quieter with less bottom end. It still sounds full through the pickup though, actually more so because I don't have to roll off the low end. The carved bass sounds way better acoustically but most of my gigs are moderate to loud volume so the carved bass will probably be more of a recording bass. Gotta fly to Denver today though so I guess I'm demoted to the Eminence!
 
#45
akmusicfreak said:
Another thing you can do with a magnetic pick up in the puddle of mud is send only the magnetic to your amp and send your piezo straight to the PA, this way the house gets the nice rich sound of your bass and you get something that doesn't feed back on stage.
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I'm not sure that would help. A feedback loop is a feedback loop. I find that is often caused by the subs making the stage vibrate, the vibrations going up the endpin, and the pickup reproducing those vibrations, wash, rinse, repeat over and over and over. The only way to overcome that is to dampen the vibrations as much as possible.

Also I'm not sure the piezo "gets the nice rich sound of your bass" out to the house either. Piezos sound like, well, pickups... 'cause they are. Face it. If the goal is stoopid loud the best you can try for is an approximation of the upright sound. I do agree that piezos are better then magnetic pickups for that.

I used to play with a kinda alt country/swamp rock (think Tom Waits meets Billie Holiday) group and we did tons of rock clubs (check my website under Radiant Darling). I used my ply with an Underwood with a lattice work of that felt stuff that piano tuners use weaved through the afterlengths of my strings and sometimes a towel shoved behind my tailpiece for good measure. It sounded requisitely huge and sorta like a DB. Face it though, at some point the big bass partly becomes a stage prop.
 
#51
fingers said:
To use the same quote as jrlynch.
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Lame line of thinking, sorry.

I have been hearing this hoity toity "stageprop" garbage since I first started on Talk-ass, mostly directed at Rockabilly players, and you all know where you can stick that. :spit:

If any of you have actually been to a rockabilly show, please raise your hand.....................................................

*crickets chirping*

That's what I thought.

Most of the rockabilly bands I know and like don't actually play that loud. Many of the bass players care alot about their bass sounding as natural as possible, use FOH support, and keep the stage volume reasonable.

A typical traditional rockabilly band has either just a snare with brushes, a minimalist drumkit (or none at all) , usually only one guitarist playing a hollow body thru a one or two-12 tube combo. We aren't talking metal band loud here, folks.

To call my instrument a stage prop is really insulting, and very condecending. Just because we differ on the bass tone we like to hear also doesn't make you any better than I.

"Why not just play a P-bass?"

Because I play the double bass, #sshole!
 
#52
Gearhead. First of all chill. Nobody here started name calling until now. Frankly I am bothered that you chose the words you did. Fortunately my skin is thick enough to not have something posted by some anonymous person on the interweb make me lose a wink of sleep.

Second of all I have been doing this for a few years. I notice we are about the same age so maybe you have too. I have been told straight out that I got the gig 'cause they liked the look of the DB. It bothered me at first but since I pay my mortgage and feed my family playing the bass I'll stand on my freaking head in a gorilla suit if the gig pays enough. It took a while to swallow enough pride to do that but I realized that kind of stuff allows me to play the music I want in clubs that don't pay very much. A good trade-off.

Third, usually volume it is not the fault of the style but rather the moron running sound at the club. The group I mentioned earlier was voice, acoustic guitar, accordian, DB, and drums. Not the recipe for loud. Never-the-less I had to purchase a good pair of earplugs and do the aforementioned dampening to deal. It was ALWAYS the sound guy's fault.

Frankly I think you need to re-read the posts above. I don't see any of them as being condescending or insulting. I'm sorry if you read them that way but I don't apologize for anything I wrote. If you are feeling like they are then it is the fault of the mis-perceived tone that posts on the interweb can have. Maybe they hit a little too close to a sore spot.
 
#53
Gearhead-at least one poster on this thread has been amplifying his bass longer than you've been alive. He was also was around before the word "rockabilly" was invented. It's good that the real rockabilly bands bands keep the volume down. That makes it much easier to amplify the acoustic bass and is NOT the subject of this thread. The subject of this thread is "Pickup for LOUD music", and that's what we've been dealing with.
Defensive much??
 
#56
fingers said:
Gearhead. First of all chill. Maybe they hit a little too close to a sore spot.
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Actually, Fingers. I quoted you because you quoted someone else dissmissing a musicians' chosen instrument as a stage prop if he or she chooses to play "too loud".

I didn't mean my entire post to be directed at you, personally.

As for the hitting a nerve thing, yes, you are right.

I have been coming to Talkbass to learn a thing or two for a while now, and get tired of constantly running into condecending and elitist attitudes directed towards those who play music outside the boundries of "jazz" or "classical" music.

The "stage prop" thing has been used to dismiss Rockabilly bass players for as long as I have been coming here.

My apoligies to you, Fingers for using your quote, my post was intended to address a much wider audience, and hopefully continue to disspell myths surrounding the double basses' role in rockabilly and other Roots music.

And as for you Salcot, I stayed on topic untill the thread drifted off topic. I gave my advice on pickups and techniques used to help prevent feedback earlier in this thread, which most of you chose to ignore or dissmiss.
 
#59
I reread all your posts, Gearhead, and found very little to disagree with. My whole point has been that sooner or later, you come up against the laws of physics. The more you restrict the acoustic qualities of the instrument, whether via EQ or physical means, the less it will sound like an acoustic bass. At that point, for me, it becomes a matter of diminishing returns. I'd rather have a great EUB sound than use an acoustic bass that will feed back if I turn the wrong way or forget to constantly mute the open strings. I'd rather just play. Got a country/rockabilly gig this Saturday. The guys love the EUB.
 
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