Pickup Options for Carved Top Hollowbody

[Dapper Dan]

* I'm not 100% certain this is the best section in which to post this question.

I am interested in purchasing a Warmoth Mooncaster bass body. The product information page is here (scroll to the bottom to see general information): Invalid Link Removed

I am curious about the pickup possibilities for this body. Warmoth will only rout it for TV Jones humbucker pickups. The website describes the body as a "carved top hollow construction." If I'm understanding correctly, this means the top is not flat, but is convex (for lack of a better description). That means that typical pickups for an electric bass, standard P or J type pickups or soapbars for example, won't be able to mount to the carved top. Or does it? Is there a mounting solution that allows standard pickups to be mounted to a carved top instrument, or is it the selection limited to pickups specifically designed for such an application?

Thanks in advance for the information,

Dan

 

[dwizum]

I've never had one of those Warmoth bodies in hand, so take this with a grain of salt.

There's no inherent reason why a body with a carved top can't accept normal bass pickups. The edge of the routed cavity may not be perfectly flat but that doesn't change how the pickup mounts (by screwing into the body at the bottom of the cavity, for standard Fender style pickups and most soapbars). If anything, that style of mounting is "easier" than a TV Jones style, which mount more like typical guitar humbuckers in the Gibson tradition, i.e. by being bolted to a mounting ring that's screwed to the face of the body, such that the pickup floats freely in the cavity.

Images of that body on google show that the pickup cavities are solid, which implies that there's a solid chunk of wood down the center of the body and it's only the wings that are hollow. That's pretty typical for this style of construction.

Warmoth stating that the TV Jones routes are the only option for that body could be due to a number of reasons. It could be as simple as that's the only thing they WANT to make. It could also be that the strip of solid wood down the center isn't wide enough to accomodate standard pickup sizes (a J is much wider than a TV Jones pickup) and they don't want the pickup cavities blowing through the side of the hollow wings. It could also be something else. But it's definitely not because the curved top makes it hard or impossible to mount a normal pickup.

 

[ctmullins]

The terminology can be a problem.

In most of the threads/conversations I’ve been a part of, “hollow body” means that the body is completely hollow, with a top that only touches the sides at the perimeter (like an acoustic guitar). “Semi-hollow body” means that there is a solid center block running from the neck to the bridge and all the way to the strap button (like a 335). Warmoth calls the Mooncaster a “hollow body”, but I suspect they really mean “semi-hollow body”, since the TV Jones pickups are designed (by default) to screw down to the wood.

As usual, everything @dwizum says is spot-on. The consideration is exactly how wide that center section is. If it’s only wide enough to accommodate the TVJ, then it won’t be wide enough for a 35-sized soapbar.

 

[2saddleslab]

TV Jones ThunderTrons worked great for my Dean Stylist hollow body upgrade.

 

[Old Blastard]

I have Jones rails in my semi hollow Drake and they are awesome. I'd go with Jones even if they weren't the ones Warmouth recommends

 

[El Güero]

It could be a chambered body with an arched (sort of) top.

From the link in the OP:
"Rear-routed control cavity (cover included)"
"Routed for TV Jones Thundertons, with pre-drilled wiring channels"

Imo, if it's a real hollow body there is no need to drill wiring channels because there's nothing to drill, and I've never seen a "rear-routed control cavity" on a hollow body because there's nothing to route.

 

[Dapper Dan]

Thanks for all the information! This all has me thinking a few different things.

It could be a chambered body with an arched (sort of) top.

From the link in the OP:
"Rear-routed control cavity (cover included)"
"Routed for TV Jones Thundertons, with pre-drilled wiring channels"

Imo, if it's a real hollow body there is no need to drill wiring channels because there's nothing to drill, and I've never seen a "rear-routed control cavity" on a hollow body because there's nothing to route.

I concur with your thinking regarding the wiring channels. A full hollow body wouldn't need channels. You and @ctmullins seem to be correct about the center block. As far as the rear-routed control cavity goes, I sort of suspect that may just be ambiguous wording for a hole routed in the back for easy access to control wiring, rather than having only the F-holes for access. It may not be a "cavity" so much as an access hole into the treble-side hollow portion of the body.

I suppose this leads me to the point where all I can do is ask Warmoth about the width of the center block. I'll send a message their way and hopefully they can give me a precise clarification.

I have Jones rails in my semi hollow Drake and they are awesome. I'd go with Jones even if they weren't the ones Warmouth recommends

@Old Blastard can you comment on the aspects of the TV Jones pickups that you like? There doesn't seem to be a tremendous variety of examples available online, the best probably being the demos on the TV Jones website. The only semi-hollow bass I have any extended experience with is a Guild Starfire II. I have briefly played a couple of fully hollow Gretsch basses in stores, and they always sounded a bit too boxy for my taste. The bridge on the Guild has rosewood saddles and a more vintage design overall, so I'm suspecting the tone of the Mooncaster, with the Hipshot D bridge, might be a little bit less traditional. But the Guild has proprietary pickups in it, which also leads me away from answers about the TV Jones. Can you shed some light on how you perceive the tone of the TVJs?

Thanks again, everyone!

 

[El Güero]

I suppose this leads me to the point where all I can do is ask Warmoth about the width of the center block.

I don't think it has a center block. I believe it was a solid wood body that could have been used for a solid body, and they routed a lot wood from it, and then they cover it with an arched top. Iow, the "center block" isn't a separate piece of wood between the back and top, it's part of the body which was left after the chambers were routed. Their front/back pic shows a belly cut on the back, like on a Strat. I've never seen a belly cut on a real hollow body. I'm not trying to be the HB Police, but I believe their advertising is very misleading.

I'd ask for some pics of the inside before the top is put on.

TL;DR version
I think that body is made the same way as a Les Paul body, with the exceptions of the routed cavities and f-holes.

 

[Old Blastard]

It's hard for me to explain the sound as I don't know the official terms and lingo. They give a full round sound that is warm yet clear. Compared to other basses I have with humbuckers, the Jones are full of mids. Low to mid. I can turn knobs to get dark or
Bright but with everything set flat it fills
Out the space between. They have a presence that my other basses with buckers don't have. Mind you those basses sound good, but the Jones just sound 3-D to me. I don't know if any of that babble
Helps

 

[Dapper Dan]

I don't think it has a center block. I believe it was a solid wood body that could have been used for a solid body, and they routed a lot wood from it, and then they cover it with an arched top. Iow, the "center block" isn't a separate piece of wood between the back and top, it's part of the body which was left after the chambers were routed. Their front/back pic shows a belly cut on the back, like on a Strat. I've never seen a belly cut on a real hollow body. I'm not trying to be the HB Police, but I believe their advertising is very misleading.

I'd ask for some pics of the inside before the top is put on.

TL;DR version
I think that body is made the same way as a Les Paul body, with the exceptions of the routed cavities and f-holes.

Another intriguing possibility! I think you are likely right, I'm not sure how else they could contour the body without it being at least mostly solid during the process. The construction method you've described probably lends itself to a more modern or solid body-esque type of sound as opposed to the traditional method of constructing a semi-hollow body. If it's not clear from their response to the inquiry I sent this morning, I'll follow up and ask them more about the construction method.

 

[Dapper Dan]

It's hard for me to explain the sound as I don't know the official terms and lingo. They give a full round sound that is warm yet clear. Compared to other basses I have with humbuckers, the Jones are full of mids. Low to mid. I can turn knobs to get dark or
Bright but with everything set flat it fills
Out the space between. They have a presence that my other basses with buckers don't have. Mind you those basses sound good, but the Jones just sound 3-D to me. I don't know if any of that babble
Helps

The lingo is all subjective anyway. I appreciate your description, as it leans toward the types of sounds I prefer from my basses. Very clanky and bright sounding pickups aren't generally to my taste, so the notion of a warm and round tone definitely appeals to me. Thanks for sharing!

 

[El Güero]

The construction method you've described probably lends itself to a more modern or solid body-esque type of sound as opposed to the traditional method of constructing a semi-hollow body.

I don't believe you'll find any kerfing strips in one of those.

 

[deepestend]

The thunderblades are really good too. I have a set in my lakland hollowbody.

 

[Dapper Dan]

The results are in! Not a very detailed response, though my question didn't necessarily require any more detail than was provided. According to Warmoth, the center block in the Mooncaster bass body is 4 inches wide. So any type of pickup whose mounting screws are within that four inch width would be a feasible option, if I'm understanding correctly, regardless of the convex carved top?

 

[ctmullins]

The results are in! Not a very detailed response, though my question didn't necessarily require any more detail than was provided. According to Warmoth, the center block in the Mooncaster bass body is 4 inches wide. So any type of pickup whose mounting screws are within that four inch width would be a feasible option, if I'm understanding correctly, regardless of the convex carved top?

That’s right! Most four string soapbars will work.

All you have to do is enlarge the Warmoth cavities to the right shape/size for whatever you choose.

 

[Dapper Dan]

Well, that's mighty convenient! A little odd they don't offer different routs on their website, but I know they have various reasons for not offering particular options. And sometimes you have to order off-menu.

Thanks for the assistance, all. A lot of details in the body design that I overlooked that helped me figure out what I needed to know.

 

[Dapper Dan]

@El Güero I see you posted a reply to this thread, but it isn't showing up in the thread itself, only in my email. The representative from Warmoth did not specify the construction details in the email he sent me, so I sent a follow-up this morning in hopes of finding out more. I'll post his response in this thread, hopefully with more specifics about how they put the Mooncaster body together.

 

[El Güero]

I see you posted a reply to this thread, but it isn't showing up in the thread itself, only in my email.

That's weird. Anyway, I'd like to hear what Warmoth has to say about the center block. Thanks.

 

[Flamingo21]

The representative from Warmoth did not specify the construction details in the email he sent me, so I sent a follow-up this morning in hopes of finding out more.

There's a chance the rep isn't at liberty to share this information. Some companies would see such details as a trade secret.

 

[Dapper Dan]

There's a chance the rep isn't at liberty to share this information. Some companies would see such details as a trade secret.

You're right, there's an entirely reasonable chance that he won't be permitted to disclose those details. I sent a polite inquiry as a follow-up, and I'll share whatever it is that he is able to tell me. It's a unique design that I'm coming to appreciate increasingly as we've discussed it in this thread. Hopefully he'll be able to give us some insight to quell our curiosity.