Piezo-like treble on my j-bass

[Quicksilver44]

My j-bass is kind of a frankenstein instrument. It was originally a squier VM fretless, I'll list what I've changed on it. And I'll try to get right to the point as I have a tendency to ramble When I turn up the tone knob (past 50% I'd say), I hear what I interpret as a piezo-like treble. Not a good one either, it's that clacky, brittle, unpleasant, harsh top end. I need to figure out why this is happening

Basically what I've done to it is the following (as far as electronics go which is where I think the culprit lies)

- changed the pickups to the classic vibe j-bass pickups
- replaced the electronics (wires/pots) with a j-bass wiring kit from stewmac

I definitely want to mention that when I did the electronics changing (the stewmac j-bass wiring kit), I solicited help from my old man, as he has a background in electronics and I had never done that before.

We both were kind of confused at the diagrams/directions included with the kit and found it a little troublesome to get it all correct. In any case, it does all work, but I've definitely noticed this treble problem. So, I'm basically thinking we may have wired it in a wrong way as, if im not mistaken, there are a few different ways to wire up a j-bass?

Anyway, I so appreciate any help on this, it's bugged me for so long =/

ALSO, if necessary, I can record what this sounds like and post it somewhere for reference

 

[line6man]

So, I'm basically thinking we may have wired it in a wrong way as, if im not mistaken, there are a few different ways to wire up a j-bass?

Nope. There is one and only one way to wire a jazz bass, such that there are two independent volume pots and one master tone.

This does not sound like a wiring issue. But you could try decreasing your pot values, and increasing the capacitance on the tone control, to get a darker tone.

 

[1bassplayinfool]

I had the same problem. This might be of some help. I ended up lowering the bridge p/u just a little bit.

http://www.talkbass.com/forum/f38/jazz-bass-question-981441/

 

[Grissle]

What amp are you playing through?

 

[Quicksilver44]

thanks for your response thus far everyone

I had the same problem. This might be of some help. I ended up lowering the bridge p/u just a little bit.

http://www.talkbass.com/forum/f38/jazz-bass-question-981441/

i dont think so because it is also comes through pretty clearly with just the neck pickup solo'd and the tone up

What amp are you playing through?

im playing through a markbass little mark ii and a GK 410MBE (with the tweeter off). i can tweak my amp and definitely lessen the brittle top-end quite a bit but it just bothers me that i cant turn my tone up too much. i mean i want it up a little so i can get a bit of a growl but obviously i cant go too far with it.

edit: in fact, just for my own reference, I just checked out a video of the squier VM, stock, and the tone dialed at 100% sounded far better than mine (at 100%), darker, warmer, much more musical growl. something just isnt right about my set up, its way way way too bright

 

[David Jayne]

Turn both volume controls down a bit, maybe 30%, along with the tone knob.

What settings do you have for VLE/VPF?

 

[Quicksilver44]

here's the thing about my volumes on the bass, if they're not at 100% up, you cant really hear them well. the audible volume (and tone) is significantly lower if they go below 100% (this goes for both of them on, or one solo'd).
this is ALSO one of the reasons that I was assuming my wiring was done wrong in SOME way or another, which is why i brought that up in the first post

so basically what i usually do is turn my pickups (or just one) on full and then adjust my volume with the amp. oh and I generally wont touch the VPF, basically just 20-30% on the VLE to cut those highs im trying to avoid off a bit

 

[Toptube]

I know you said the issue is there with the neck pickpu soloed, but I just want to be clear:

with each pickup soloed, you hear this treble? Is it worse with both pickups on full, together?

I'm asking this because I'm wondering if maybe you wired them out of phase.

pickup height could be suspect as well. are your pickups super close to the strings? Have you tried lowering the pickups a lot, while the bass is plugged in so that you can easily gauge the changes?

 

[pattyløve]

To me, this sounds exactly like when i changed my pots to 500k pots. I did the mod to add clarity to my bass but all it did was add a brittle harshness and painful high-end to my tone.

Were the pots 500k that came with the kit? Changing back to 250k would fix this problem.

 

[David Jayne]

I'm asking this because I'm wondering if maybe you wired them out of phase.

+1. Swap leads on one pickup.

 

[lowphatbass]

....We both were kind of confused at the diagrams/directions included with the kit and found it a little troublesome to get it all correct. In any case, it does all work, but I've definitely noticed this treble problem. So, I'm basically thinking we may have wired it in a wrong way as, if im not mistaken, there are a few different ways to wire up a j-bass?....

There's basically only one way to wire a J correctly, but there's more than one way to screw it up. It's not hard to make a mistake, especially if you're not clear on the schematic and/or don't have soldering chops. Some schematics are pretty generic and include multiple options that may apply to your application so choosing the correct one is important. I would get a second(third) opinion if you're not sure. Like others have said, it could be as simple as the pickups being out of phaze which is sucking all your tone and body and leaving you with brittle sounding poo.

 

[Quicksilver44]

I know you said the issue is there with the neck pickpu soloed, but I just want to be clear:

with each pickup soloed, you hear this treble? Is it worse with both pickups on full, together?

I'm asking this because I'm wondering if maybe you wired them out of phase.

pickup height could be suspect as well. are your pickups super close to the strings? Have you tried lowering the pickups a lot, while the bass is plugged in so that you can easily gauge the changes?

yes, I hear it with both on full or just one or the either soloed, so yes it appears on all combinations of pickup volumes. and actually i have adjusted pickup height a few times over the months and lowering them doesnt really change much other than my volume

To me, this sounds exactly like when i changed my pots to 500k pots. I did the mod to add clarity to my bass but all it did was add a brittle harshness and painful high-end to my tone.

Were the pots 500k that came with the kit? Changing back to 250k would fix this problem.

they are 250k pots

There's basically only one way to wire a J correctly, but there's more than one way to screw it up. It's not hard to make a mistake, especially if you're not clear on the schematic and/or don't have soldering chops. Some schematics are pretty generic and include multiple options that may apply to your application so choosing the correct one is important. I would get a second(third) opinion if you're not sure. Like others have said, it could be as simple as the pickups being out of phaze which is sucking all your tone and body and leaving you with brittle sounding poo.

this kind of sounds like how I would describe whats going on, the tone is just lacking in general character ALONG with the bad treble. would it be helpful if I posted a picture of the control cavity so everyone can see exactly how it's wired up? i have no problem with going in and switching something around if suggested, i just admit that I'd need help with what exactly to do. i just dont have the money to bring it into a tech at the moment =/ otherwise i totally would do that

Edit: actually, I should clarify this point a little bit. i have a good bit of body and bass and mids in the sound, what i was saying was that the tone seems unremarkable along with the treble problem. so to be perfectly clear, since you were referring to it possibly being an out of phase problem, it doesnt necessarily sound like that specifically

 

[David Jayne]

if you are soloing the neck pickup and you roll in the bridge pickup does the bottom end go away?

 

[Quicksilver44]

no, fortunately, that's not quite going on. however (I'm not sure if it's significant, but I want to throw this out there) I can say that there's no real "blending" possible with these pickups, as they are.

for example, if I have the neck pickup 100% and I roll in the bridge pickup a bit, it doesnt make ANY difference in the tone UNTIL I bring the bridge up to 100%, then you hear a change in tone, and vice versa. this also doesnt seem right either, so i figured id mention it, as i guess it may be another piece to the puzzle in my tonal catastrophe

(sorry, dont mean to be TOO melodramatic )

 

[Toptube]

if I have the neck pickup 100% and I roll in the bridge pickup a bit, it doesnt make ANY difference in the tone UNTIL I bring the bridge up to 100%, then you hear a change in tone, and vice versa. this also doesnt seem right either, so i figured id mention it, as i guess it may be another piece to the puzzle in my tonal catastrophe

This is just a characteristic of the type of volume pots you have. There isn't anything actually wrong, in this regard.

 

[mikezimmerman]

What strings are you using?

 

[Quicksilver44]

This is just a characteristic of the type of volume pots you have. There isn't anything actually wrong, in this regard.

okay, thats cool, it doesnt really bother me anyway, just wanted to make sure

What strings are you using?

im using d'addario nickel rounds, medium gauge (5+ months old, roughly). and i coated my fingerboard in polyurethane so the tone has a certain brightness by nature but this is definitely too much. i mean acoustically, theres definitely not that much of a super bright tone either, it's remarkably warm, acoustically.

 

[Grissle]

I vote for a quickie recording so we can hear what's happening exactly.

 

[Quicksilver44]

okie doke, here's a recording

https://soundcloud.com/returntoforever/test-1

this clacky-ness is audible here

 

[David Jayne]

Dude, I just listened to your clip several times, through high-quality speakers and headphones. There's absolutely nothing wrong there. That's the way a Jazz bass is supposed to sound. As I said before, if you'd like it to sound a bit darker and fatter, turn down the Volume controls a bit as well as the Tone control--this is a trick used by all great Jazz bass users.
By the way your playing is very nice.