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Piezo pickups - sourcing and installation?

#21
K&K is fast! I should really pick up the phone, but I'm getting what I need via email and I can multitask at work more easily with email. Here's what they sent back:

It may be helpful to think about the construction of a flat top (standard) guitar while working with the pickup. The pickup would be mounted under the area of the bridge on the inside of the top, directly under where the saddle sits. This is to capture the most amount of acoustic energy from the strings as it passes through the bridge into the top. This location will also capture the natural resonance of the entire top as it is generally the acoustic center of the instrument.

So I am not sure what to do here as I won't be able to actually test anything for months from now. I don't know how much energy is going to get transmitted through the top wood, but it obviously has to be pretty thin, thinner than I was planning. So I guess I have to find that magical point between thick enough to not break/deform and thin enough to transmit sound. What's my chance of hitting that point on the first and only try? I won't be able to carve the front thinner once the thing is together, unless I create an opening on the back (I wasn't planning on that). hmmm.
 
#22
Sounds like you need to look into more traditional acoustic building techniques. You shouldn't have to r&d a whole new thing, just do it more like they do it than the solid body style.
At least it sounds to me like your heading that way.
 
#23
yes, exactly. I don't fully understand the implications at this point, more research is required. I assume I could just send this back when I get it. Then look deeper into true piezo pickups and a preamp instead of changing my whole design based on this one thing. I'll think about it and research acoustics more.
 
#24
I'm interested in seeing where this goes. From the samples I've listened to, I generally prefer the sound of a K&K type spot pickup to the more common nasal sounding undersaddle pickups.

I think it could work, if you design the bass to have a fairly large hollow area around the bridge, with quite a thin top (⅛" maybe?), with no block under the bridge. You would need some acoustic guitar-style bracing for strength. This would allow the top to vibrate, a bit like a drum skin (or a banjo!).
It might be easier to design this with a tailpiece, like an archtop guitar, rather than a standard acoustic guitar-type bridge. With a tailpiece, the strings pushes straight down on the top, rather than the strings wanting to grab and rotate the bridge, taking the top with it.
In this scenario the bridge can't be too far towards the tail of the bass, it'll need to be a bit more centered over the hollow cavity.
 
#25
My plan for the tailpiece is to have ferrules and feed the strings from the back, so that section of body would be solid and the pressure should be directly down on the bridge rather than pulling it backwards - and I guess putting those as far back as possible would makes sense to ensure that pressure is as "down" as possible.

A buddy of mine builds acoustic guitars so I've been picking his brain. It sounds like the general idea is to have the wood under the bridge to be the thickest, then have the edges or even just the area around the outside of the bridge thinner to allow for vibration. He said the height of the saddles is important too as you want the saddles to be able to use leverage to vibrate the top. I had already planned on hollowing out the entire body.

So I guess I'll try out this pickup, it sounds like I have a plan, however flawed. I already started a thread for this build, but it's been knocked way down as I haven't updated it yet. I don't expect to make much progress for the next few weeks, but you'll see it come to the top when I get it going.

I'll stop saying thanks at the end of every post eventually, but I do appreciate the consideration, this is a great forum.
 
#26
scottyd said:
I've used one of these with great results. 5 String Bass Bridge with Built in Piezo Pickup Acoustic Sound Chrome New | eBay

I put it on a dual cut that I built.. I had David with Audere adjust the gain amount on one of the inputs of a Classic EQ. I ran a single humbucker on the other input. Here's a sound clip.. It's a tapping beast lots of clarity in the tap, I had it strung with round wounds in this recording so you can hear a-lot of finger noise and slight taps on the body while paying.. it was fun blending the two pups together.
Click to expand...
I have that bridge in a 4 string version. I have not used it yet. You simply can't beat the price.
 
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#27
@Jisch did you ever make this bass? Can you link the thread if you did? Wondering how the piezo turned out for you, I'm hoping to build something similar to your description earlier in the thread at some point.
 
#29
Semi hollow with an acoustic-guitar style bridge, ie a block of wood with a slot and a saddle in it, with a piezo under the saddle and no other pickup. Minimal electronics/controls. Fretless. Similar to what Rob Allen builds more or less.

I see some threads on here about traditional solid body basses with piezo bridges but not much in the style in describing which seemed similar to what the OP here wanted to do, hence I dug up the old thread!
 
#30
Well both methods have been done over the years. Both solid, hollow or semi hollow with an under saddle piezo pickup and variations of semi solid and solid with piezo equipped bridges. I have being building solid with piezo equipped bridges as I can source piezo buffers with gains for each individual string. This allows me to balance output from string to string. Most pickups that have the elements ganged will suffer from some string imbalance. The approach I have taken is not inexpensive though. There seem to have been several makers who have successfully utilized the under saddle piezos and they are relatively inexpensive. Is it better? I don't know. I started 30+ years ago making my own piezo elements for individual strings but have gravitated to using Graphtech Ghost saddles. The material they are imbedded in reduces a lot of the transient attack associated with piezos and I get a more natural sound. The only benefit to a hollowed version in my mind would be weight reduction and not any tangible affect on resultant sound quality. I suggest you do a lot of research and poll several makers and decide the direction you wish to take given the sound you are after.
All the best.
P.S. I have a build thread going for a six string solid with an ebony neck and piezo only using the Richter multi channel buffer preamp I mentioned.
 
#31
dwizum said:
@Jisch did you ever make this bass? Can you link the thread if you did? Wondering how the piezo turned out for you, I'm hoping to build something similar to your description earlier in the thread at some point.
Click to expand...
You may find some useful info in my semi-acoustic fretless build here:

30” Scale Compact Semi-acoustic Fretless Bass Build

The electronics starts around step #111...
 

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