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Pirated!

  • Thread starter Thread starter Deleted member 165050
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#44
dxb said:
The more of your music they listen to- for free or otherwise- the greater the likelihood they'll buy a ticket to see you play live or buy a t-shirt or an LP or whatever else you're selling.
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Like @40Hz was suggesting, this isn't a viable business model for most bands. We rarely play live, don't have any merchandising, and why would anyone buy something they are already listening to for free?
 
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#45
dxb said:
The more of your music they listen to- for free or otherwise- the greater the likelihood they'll buy a ticket to see you play live or buy a t-shirt or an LP or whatever else you're selling.
Click to expand...

Just like the LOTTO. The more tickets you buy, the greater the likelihood you have to win?

True enough. But your odds are close to zero.

I'd bet that the more likely someone is to buy your music, the more likely they are to buy your merch or pay to go to a show.

The free crowd seldom is going to pay anything for anything.
 
#46
ficelles said:
Like @40Hz was suggesting, this isn't a viable business model for most bands. We rarely play live, don't have any merchandising, and why would anyone buy something they are already listening to for free?
Click to expand...

They wouldn't. If you want to make money as a band you have to have something to sell your fans that they can't get for free, unless you manage to get a lot of action on streaming services like Tidal or Napster which seem to pay pretty decent royalties. Beyond that, I've already suggested a couple things like doing a limited run of LPs or offering uncompressed HD audio downloads for people who like your music enough to want a nicer listening experience (and to know that their purchase is helping keep the band going).

There might be other things too like film and TV licensing, but really its all about having as many revenue streams as possible. You can't count on any one thing.
 
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#47
dxb said:
They wouldn't. If you want to make money as a band you have to have something to sell your fans that they can't get for free, unless you manage to get a lot of action on streaming services like Tidal or Napster which seem to pay pretty decent royalties. Beyond that, I've already suggested a couple things like doing a limited run of LPs or offering uncompressed HD audio downloads for people who like your music enough to want a nicer listening experience (and to know that their purchase is helping keep the band going).

There might be other things too like film and TV licensing, but really its all about having as many revenue streams as possible. You can't count on any one thing.
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You'd like us all to turn into Gene Simmons then :)

We are musicians, not merchandisers or entrepreneurs. Illegal downloading hurts people like us financially and for most makes being in an originals band that wants to release its own music nothing more than a very expensive hobby.

Talking of LP runs, I guess you mean vinyl and we are looking at it (I'd really like the album on vinyl) but that is another expensive undertaking. A run of 500 vinyl albums will cost upwards of a couple of thousand, much more possibly depending on the technical issues. We might try crowdfunding a vinyl run but I doubt we have a big enough fanbase to make it work.
 
#48
What you can do, and do it now before the amount of viewers rise to enourmous levels, is that put ads in the video at the beginning, or at the pane at the sides, and demand that the user puts YOUR BANK ACCOUNT to which proceedings should be steered at. The advertisers will show up.
 
#49
40Hz said:
Your right to control the distribution of your creative work and the opportunity to profit from it.

People will very seldom voluntarily pay anything for things they can get for free. Basic economics.

There are all the New Age theories that preach otherwise. Most were tried out and thoroughly vetted back in the 70s and 80s. And guess what? It doesn't work. Other than a very tiny number of good hearted souls who will voluntarily give financial support to their favorite bands, the vast majority of the listening public doesn't think - or act - like that. And despite all the talk about "new paradigms" and "the new online business model," when the dust finally settled on the smoking ruins following the dotcom collapse of the 90s, those businesses that still survived were conducting business the same way humans always have - by selling things for actual money.

Now there's a newer generation who, for the most part, doesn't believe in paying for anything they can't hold in their hands. And while they might have no problem dropping $600 on the latest smartphone, they see little reason why they should have to pay for any music they might want to play on it. They've grown up with the notion that anything that's accessible online, or is able to be copied off of it, is somehow mysteriously and magically "free." Or at least should be free for some equally magical reason.

Most musicians and bands are caught in an unsustainable situation right now. They no longer have a product (i.e. recordings/videos) they can sell reliably. The have become a service business, complete with the abuses, long hours, low wages, and poor working conditions that characterize so many service sector jobs.

Even the hoped for revenues from ticketed live webcasts have been minimal. Which provides further evidence there's a widespread belief that anything that is made available via the web "should be free." Were it otherwise, paywalls would not have met the resistance they have.


Welcome to the realities of performing music in the 21st century. For most bands, it's going to be a hobby at best.
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Oh, I assumed it was free online and that's where they got it.
 
#51
ficelles said:
You'd like us all to turn into Gene Simmons then :)

We are musicians, not merchandisers or entrepreneurs. Illegal downloading hurts people like us financially and for most makes being in an originals band that wants to release its own music nothing more than a very expensive hobby.
Click to expand...

Like any other artistic profession, if you go the DIY route you have to be part entrepreneur. I make my living primarily as a graphic artist and I constantly struggle with this concept because I hate dealing with business and marketing. I just want to focus on the thing I'm good at but in order to make that viable I have to grit my teeth and do the other stuff too.

ficelles said:
Talking of LP runs, I guess you mean vinyl and we are looking at it (I'd really like the album on vinyl) but that is another expensive undertaking. A run of 500 vinyl albums will cost upwards of a couple of thousand, much more possibly depending on the technical issues. We might try crowdfunding a vinyl run but I doubt we have a big enough fanbase to make it work.
Click to expand...

Crowdfunding potential does depend on having a healthy fanbase, but getting your music out there and heard by as many people as possible will help you achieve that.
 
#52
dxb said:
Its certainly a dilemma, but I don't think calling your fans thieves is going to do you much good. It might even turn a lot of people off who would otherwise want to support your band. You gotta keep it positive.
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Ficelles & 40Hz are right though. Harsh but true words. I am guilty as charged but I do buy the stuff I really like. I don't do the streaming thing. I like to have full albums. If I like it enough to want to listen to it in the car, then I buy it. Yes Herrick is spoiled and I never want to go back to the Dark Age of blindly buying a $17 album without hearing it beforehand or relying on radio singles to determine if the album is worth buying.
 
#56
xnewyorka said:
Hmm, I was pretty sure I heard what sounded like an acoustic upright bass being bowed. Or was that a synth?
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Which track? I don't think there's any bowed bass on the album and I don't think any cello made it on in the end either so either Wal or keyboards... that Wal can sound very acoustic-like though.
 
#57
the best deal on vinyl is probably PiratesPress (oh the irony) :)

250 12" Black Vinyl LP's ONLY $1650
Includes all Mastering, Plating, Full Color Labels
and Jackets (w/ 3mm Spine) on Upgraded 16pt. Stock

of course if you haven't mastered the audio for vinyl you'll need to spend some money there. in addition, unless you are handy with graphics, you'll need someone to create the layouts and art for the jackets and labels.
 
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#58
ficelles said:
Is this just how it is now?
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Yes. Recorded music no longer has value in the eyes of a good number of people. ...at least enough value for them to actually pay for it.

Stealing recorded music is usually justified by, "bands make their money off touring and tee shirts anyway", or "whatever I'd pay for music would just go to the record label instead of the musicians".
 
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