• TalkBass has been independent since 1998. Add your voice.
    Create a free account to reply to discussions, view embedded media, and browse with fewer display ads.
    Join free Log in
    Want zero display ads or expanded classifieds tools? Compare plans.

PJ pickups vs single pickup P

#41
StuartV said:
So, fretting (heh heh) over whether having/adding a J pickup will make your P bass not sound like a P bass is, as my dad would say, just mental masturbation.
Click to expand...

+1

Just play it! If having a P tone and a J tone is super important, get a P and a J. A PJ is a slightly different animal and should be treated as such, rather than it's shortcomings on sounding exactly like what it isn't.
 
#46
scuzzy said:
dimarzio p/j set (j is hum cancelliing) with a vol/tone and 3-way selector. simply stunning tones come from that setup.
Click to expand...
+1 on the 3 way selector - nice and consistent, albiet lacking in fractional blends. Passive blend controls struggle to blend nicely due to the gain changes as the total resistance seen by the preamp changes as you blend". The active blend controls offered by EMG and a few others is the state of art way to blend since they buffer each pickup to keep resistance and gain fairly stable across their entire range.
 
#48
scuzzy said:
dimarzio p/j set (j is hum cancelliing) with a vol/tone and 3-way selector. simply stunning tones come from that setup.
Click to expand...

Volume/Tone + 3-way pickup selector switch is my favorite P/J setup. I played with a V/V/T setup for a while, but found that I rarely, if ever, dialed either of the pickups down at all - they were always full up. The switch makes it much, much easier to solo either of the pickups, too.
 
#49
Bongolation said:
Not if your brain is educated.

The typical passive P/J with V/V/T controls is a technical failure for reasons I've spent thousands of words explaining just in the past couple of years. Search "V/V/T syndrome" just for a start. It's just terrible, ignorant engineering.

If you think the P/J is a valuable idea, go the Tony Franklin route, with switched pickups of the best individual quality, not screwed up "P/J" pickup sets that try (unsuccessfully) to match each other, but fall short as either P or J.

Do what you want, it's your money, your funeral.
Click to expand...

To Kikeg I would say that you should understand that bongolation is extremely passionate and opinonated on this subject. I do not doubt that he has written thousands of words about it but they all boil down to this: he does not like the way a passive VVT P/J sounds so neither should you. There is no poor engineering or faulty physics involved. There is no such thing as VVT syndrome. Every way you configure and wire a bass leads to a different sound. Everyone will like some but not others. We will not be holding a memorial service for you should you choose a passive VVT P/J. Worst case we will be giving you advice on how to wired in an ON-ON-ON pickup selector toggle switch but more likely we will just read your NBD report in which you sing the praises of your new bass.

Most active P/J basses use a blend control followed by a preamp. The blend control is exactly like the VV in VVT except that it constrains you to having one V or the other maxed all the time. If you really don't like the sound of a VVT then all you have to do is keep one V or the other maxed out all the time. Did that kill you? Didn't even make you sick, did it?
 
#50
StuartV said:
Besides the poll data to refute this statement, I want to point out:

- there is no 1 Fender Precision sound. Over the years, there have been so many different Fender Precisions - even if you limit it to split coil, passive basses - that there is no way you can say there is just one P sound. Different body woods. Different fret board woods. Different ways of making the pickup. Different tone caps. Different whole tone circuits.

- Just because you can hear a difference between 1 particular P bass and 1 particular PJ does not mean (AT ALL) that the difference is coming from having the J pickup. Two "identical" basses - same woods, same strings, same pickups, same everything - will often sound different.

I'd be willing to bet money that, if you took 100 different randomly selected passive Fender Precision basses, where 90 of them were P only and 10 of them were PJ, NOBODY could reliably pick out the PJ basses. They may sound slightly different, but ALL the basses in that batch of 100 will sound slightly different.

So, fretting (heh heh) over whether having/adding a J pickup will make your P bass not sound like a P bass is, as my dad would say, just mental masturbation.

:D
Click to expand...

I'm sorry that your dad was a jerk, but I said nothing untoward to you, so there is no excuse for treating other people rudely. If you want people to respect your views, you should begin by treating them with respect.

On topic, though, you took my comments out of context, or perhaps I was unclear, and your "refutation" is irrelevant, immaterial, ill considered, and rude.

The point I was making is that of the available P/J options, a switchable unit like the Tony Franklin bass is the best option. I was not making a comparison with a standard P bass.
 
#52
khutch said:
To Kikeg I would say that you should understand that bongolation is extremely passionate and opinonated on this subject. I do not doubt that he has written thousands of words about it but they all boil down to this: he does not like the way a passive VVT P/J sounds so neither should you. There is no poor engineering or faulty physics involved. There is no such thing as VVT syndrome. Every way you configure and wire a bass leads to a different sound. Everyone will like some but not others. We will not be holding a memorial service for you should you choose a passive VVT P/J. Worst case we will be giving you advice on how to wired in an ON-ON-ON pickup selector toggle switch but more likely we will just read your NBD report in which you sing the praises of your new bass.

Most active P/J basses use a blend control followed by a preamp. The blend control is exactly like the VV in VVT except that it constrains you to having one V or the other maxed all the time. If you really don't like the sound of a VVT then all you have to do is keep one V or the other maxed out all the time. Did that kill you? Didn't even make you sick, did it?
Click to expand...

Ok, no problem at all. Thanks.

...and of course that Jazz Bass Special is VVT w/3-way switch. I've double checked it. It also has the TBX tone control ;)
 
#53
I've owned a couple of P/Js w VVT, both passive and I like the set up. I go for a basic P sound with just the P pickup. But sometimes you need a little more high end to hear well and cut thru. Thats when you dial in a little of the rear J pickup, usually never more than 1/2 way on the volume. Very handy and useful IMO.
If you max both out like has been said, the vol drops, and I dont much like the sound anyway. The J pickup alone I never use.
 
#54
Whit Townsend said:
I've owned a couple of P/Js w VVT, both passive and I like the set up. I go for a basic P sound with just the P pickup. But sometimes you need a little more high end to hear well and cut thru. Thats when you dial in a little of the rear J pickup, usually never more than 1/2 way on the volume. Very handy and useful IMO.
If you max both out like has been said, the vol drops, and I dont much like the sound anyway. The J pickup alone I never use.
Click to expand...

This is pretty much how I use my PJ. Most of the time I use only the P soloed but find a useful tone blending the J as Whit described. My bass is an '82 Fender AVRI '62 I bought a few years back that came with a split coil J added mod. The J pup was wired straight to the circuit with no switch or 2nd vol knob. I just wanted a P bass but decided to tolerate the J because the neck is killer and the price was right. I added a stacked knob in the tone position to make it V/V/T. I have no interest in adding a switch in the pick guard. Now I find out from PJ threads that even with the J rolled all the way off my pure P tone is compromised.
My questions are: should I change the P vol. pot to a pull push switch to isolate the P when the J is not in use and would I notice the difference ?
Should I disconnect the J and use just as a thumb rest?
The stacked knob is a 62 ? Jazz replacement. Would that not make the lower knob tone and the upper knob volume? My friend who helped me wire it has that reversed. One pot is 250, the other 500.
Any thoughts much appreciated .

Divetone
 
#55
devnulljp said:
Anyone have a wiring diagram for master volume, master tone, 3way switch (P/J/PJ) Tony Franklin PJ ? Is it just the same as a telecaster?
250 or 500k pots? What value tone cap?

I'd rather use a mini toggle or a Gibson style 3-way than hack up my pickguard for the telecaster-type blade switch (it's already wired V/V/T so there's are 3 holes for pots, one could be used for a switch).

Just a thought ... anyone ever tried wiring a PJ like a Rickenbacker with stereo out?
Click to expand...

It is basically like the Tele, original slightly different. Switches - I have used both, sonically and functionally equivalent. Cap and Pots to taste. I have left at 250K and .047u.

Original TF:
TF_Curcuit_s.jpg


TF_1977_Schm_s.jpg


Signature TF:
TF_CUR_Schm_s.jpg


My final diagram for a Fender MIA P and a Model J:
http://www.talkbass.com/forum/f38/fender-dimarzio-pj-wiring-problem-879873/#post14859434

Pic of my poorman's TF:
http://www.talkbass.com/forum/f8/tony-franklin-signature-bass-club-767209/index12.html#post14808991
 
#56
Great to see so many PJ fans around. But believe me, if you're only using VVT, VBT or a typical 3-way switch, you're probably missing out on the best sound - both pickups in series. That's my most used setting, a snarling mid-heavy beast.
 
#57
StuartV said:
VVT Syndrome is a term used to describe the sound characteristics of passive basses with 2 pickups that are wired with 2 separate volumes and a tone control. It is a term used by people who want the laws of Physics to change so that these basses sound different than they way they actually sound.

To hear VVT Syndrome in action, take your Zodiac and start playing with one pickup all the way up and the other all the way off. Keep playing as you gradually increase the volume on the one pickup until it's all the way up. You should notice that just before the second pickup gets to the point of having its volume knob all the way up - just as the very last part of the knob turning - the volume will seem to actually drop off a bit. In other words, when both pickups have their volume knobs all the way up, the bass will sound not quite as loud as if you turn either volume knob down just a tiny bit.

That is due to the interaction of the 2 pickups that happens only when both volume pots are wide open, which results in a slight scooping of the mids in the tone. It is fundamental to the nature of passive VVT Jazz basses.

It is what it is. Ranting that it's a bad design is to suggest that the bass isn't working the way it's supposed to. Which, unless somebody ever reported Leo Fender stating that his Jazz bass design doesn't work the way he wanted it to, seems like a case of people asserting their own agendas onto other people.
Click to expand...

This also happens to the iazz bass if you get one of the pickups wired in backwards so they both are in the same polarity instead of reversed so they are in humbucking mode at full volumes.
 
#58
I think the ultimate would be to have each pickup wired separate to their own respective output jacks like the yamaha attitude basses so you could have each pickup have its own head, eq'd separately, separate volume...the works. That way you are getting the full juicy tone out of each pickup. ..
 

Latest posts

Top Bottom
Back