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Double Bass Planet Wing pickup

#81
hi all

I had the pleasure to partecipate to the developement of the Planet Wing a few years ago. I came to know Planet Pickups because of a previous pu model (the one on the picture at the top of the website) which I purchased in first place. Unfortunately it didn't work for me and it led to many e-mail and calls to Peter Kaae, the owner of the company and a respected Danish urb player. He offered to refund the money but he also proposed me to help him out with the developement of a new pickup that he had in mind. Making pickups is a hobby rather than a way of making a living for Peter Kaae, so he didn't have deadlines. Just like me, he was unsatisfied with the choice of pickups for db on the market. There was no point for him in making just another pickup, it had to be better. It was the start of a long and intense prototyping period and quite a few pickups variants on and off my urbs until the final version. My role was basically to test prototypes and provide feedbacks. I recall at least 7-8 versions that I received, and I know that Peter Kaae made many more that never left the workshop.

Planet offered in the beginning two variants of the Wing model: the copperplated one (as it is today) and a second one encapsulated in beautiful polished briar wood, making it look like a stunning little piece of art. The wooden model was eventually discontinued due to very high production costs and unknown durability. I have two of them om my urbs and I'm sorry that Planet Pickups choosed to discontinue them. Peter, if you ever read this I have to say that durability was not an issue anyway :-) I know that Peter Kaae would disagree with me on this, but the sound of the early wooden models was slightly more round on the highs to me - in other words, a little less 'piezo'. Still I'm talking about vague sensations more than clear, audible facts. Compared to the latest copperplated version I wouldn't hesitate rating the two versions as being 'identical'.

I recall what I said to Peter in the beginning: I needed a single pu system that could enhance the slap and the deep bass without the need additional stuff like preamps, equalizers or extra fingerboard pickup. Also, I wanted to be able to hear clearly the lowest tones on the E-string even with plain gut strings. One single pickup to plug straight into the amp with no batteries involved. And I wanted to be able to mount the pu on another bass in a matter of seconds and still get the same sound without adjustments.

Considering these particular requirements the Planet Wing is still i.m.o the best option around.
 
#82
My luthier gave me a gage Soundclip to try! Both my basses are set up with Planet Wing so I was a little anxious at first when I plugged into the Soundclip, it sounded sweet clear once I tweaked my amp a bit!! Keeping the same setting on the amp I plugged into the PW and it sounded rubbish in comparison!! But after I tweaked my amp a bit I found the exact nice, warm, clean sound!!??!! So my conclusion is that I'll give the Soundclip back to my luthier and keep on using the PW that replaced my Underwood on my carved bass and Realist on the hybrid bass. Planet Wing is a great little pickup!
 
#83
This seems to be the thread I couldn't find earlier. Somewhere else I replied to a Planet Wing discussion.

In a mood to experiment recently I put a Planet Wing pick up on my carved German factory bass playing jazz through a Clarus III and Epifani 110 cab. I can't get what I want (even sound) out of it.

Playing? The low end is monstrous, clean and clear. Huge sound! I described it to our guitarist as "it's pushing some serious air." That's what it feels like to me. Mids and highs are either weak or hollow however. On some notes there was a real ring to the tone, almost like the pick up was very "microphonic" and close to feeding back. I had read somewhere that if there's a tweeter on the cab, shut it off. It seems to make no difference. Some have used the term nasal to describe certain pick ups or sounds. I don't know if this is "nasal" but whatever it is, it's definitely not desirable in mid to upper register.

Enter a Headway EDB-1. I haven't yet fooled with the notch filter but none of the EQ setting changes made much difference. I had dragged this particular bass out because it hasn't been played in awhile. I believe the p/u is installed correctly. Killer low end! KILLER, but I stayed around the bottom end when playing last night and that gets old.

I fully realize that this p/u may never sound good on this instrument. Anyone have a similar experience?

Apologies if this post gets another pick up thread going. I know how it can excite the gear heads. I'm going to go back to Barry Kolstein's site to do a little more research on this p/u before I give up. FDeck might have something for me to try as well.
 
#84
I had a couple of these and sold them all off. I think I might still have one somewhere. Yeah, the balance is a little weird but can be pretty good depending on the bass.

Oh yeah, I think I stopped using it when I got my new bass: it would require a big shim to make it work. At the time other pickups just simply sounded better (BP100, Realist).
 
#85
bumping this thread-

i took this pickup off of my shen SB80, and tried to put it on my carved old german bass. the wing spot on the bridge was too large, so it required a wedge. i used a torn up/folded business card.. looks bad, but sounded really good. better sounding on this bass than my old pickup, the realist soundclip.

the lows are still quite huge, and i don't care for its arco sound. but, its a nice sounding pickup.

does anyone else need a wedge, if so what do you use?

i almost like that it needs one, it makes it quite easy to come on/off of the bass. but i'm wondering how this affects the sound.
 
#86
Huy Nguyen said:
Yes Bolo, the first PW product was a drill-into-the-bridge plug. Similar to the Wilson PUPs, not like the Vektor. I think you could use it with adjusters unlike the Vektor.

I wouldn't be surprised of some ppl consider the lows coming from the PW a little unnatural. I find that the PW is quite easy to work with using a 4 band preamp. You can get the sound to adjust as need be without alot of fuss. IME, the RS and FC can get a little fussy. Adding too much of one thing leads to another undesired tone. The PW is balanced in that sense for me. Cutting the bass will cut just that. Adding the mid won't bring out some other weird characteristic.

For me, the PW is warmer and has that airy puff that mics can get easily. Not so much with the RS. Don't get me wrong, the RS is a good pickup too, just not on my bass.

For my chrissy it goes PW > FC > RS.
Click to expand...
Hi there
If I'm not mistaken I read a post of yours talking about how the Planet Wing pickup sounded on your EUB. Could you please give me more info since I'm thinking of buying the pickup for my EUB but would like to hear a little more from you about it's performance on a EUB before springing the money if you know what I mean. I've been playing double bass for at least 30 years and so I know what the possibilities are for a real acoustic bass but being new to the EUB thing is a whole other bunch of problems as to getting as acoustic a sound as possible.
Thanks
P.S.
I use the Full Circle pickup on my acoustic double bass
 
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#87
I started using my EUB more recently and was always dissatisfied with piezo's performance. Planet wing included. Terribly nasal and uneven. Just last week I picked up a used Krivo and I like it a lot - it gives a more even sound, but the downside is that it sounds more like a bass guitar.

To give you an idea, these days I find piezo's also somewhat nasal with DB, it's a little more even, but you can't get away from that nasal/boxiness in some degree or another. For DB, I rely more on microphones (DPA-4099-B specifically), but for louder gigs I settle for a realist.

I sold my PW a while back (maybe regretting it a little now).
 
#88
Huy Nguyen said:
I started using my EUB more recently and was always dissatisfied with piezo's performance. Planet wing included. Terribly nasal and uneven. Just last week I picked up a used Krivo and I like it a lot - it gives a more even sound, but the downside is that it sounds more like a bass guitar.

To give you an idea, these days I find piezo's also somewhat nasal with DB, it's a little more even, but you can't get away from that nasal/boxiness in some degree or another. For DB, I rely more on microphones (DPA-4099-B specifically), but for louder gigs I settle for a realist.

I sold my PW a while back (maybe regretting it a little now).
Click to expand...
Well I'm definitely not into having my EUB sounding like an electric bass that's for sure so the Krivo you talk about is a no no for sure. I think my safest bet is going with the Full Circle since I have it on my regular double bass which gives me a great sound and I have heard various EUBs on Youtube using the Full Circle and they seem to get a decent sound. Thanks for your info.
 
#89
After gigging with the Krivo for several months on a good sounding 50's Pfretzener shop bass playing mainly rootsy Americana type stuff I've had nothing but glowing praise from EVERY soundman including guys who've mixed a lot of acoustic instruments....and thumbs up from bandmates and audience members. I find at any volume past a light handed drummer playing with blasticks I get a more natural sound than any piezo I've used. The Krivo is a very microphonic pickup which means it captures sound much in the way a mic does. That said it does require a sensitive EQ to filter some of the electric bass woof and I haven't been happy with it through some provided amps. But with either of the rigs I use (an Aguilar TH350/Bag End S15X-D or a Markbass Mini CMD 121P combo) I can get it to sound as much like my bass as any pickup is ever going to and honestly at the higher volumes I play at not having to fight the low feedback threshold of a piezo I feel it gives me a more natural sound than a piezo can. By way of comparison I also have a DPA 4099 mic on this bass that I almost never use anymore except very occasionally to send to FOH. If you're playing loud don't be too quick to write the Krivo off without trying it yourself especially the latest generation as he has evolved and improved them.
 
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#90
I concur Jeff, the Krivo is the best sounding pickup I have ever used, at any volume, and I have always been a purist when it comes to my sound. It does not make my bass sound like an electric bass at all, it just sounds like, well...my bass.

Jeff Bonny said:
After gigging with the Krivo for several months on a good sounding 50's Pfretzener shop bass playing mainly rootsy Americana type stuff I've had nothing but glowing praise from EVERY soundman including guys who've mixed a lot of acoustic instruments....and thumbs up from bandmates and audience members. I find at any volume past a light handed drummer playing with blasticks I get a more natural sound than any piezo I've used. The Krivo is a very microphonic pickup which means it captures sound much in the way a mic does. That said it does require a sensitive EQ to filter some of the electric bass woof and I haven't been happy with it through some provided amps. But with either of the rigs I use (an Aguilar TH350/Bag End S15X-D or a Markbass Mini CMD 121P combo) I can get it to sound as much like my bass as any pickup is ever going to and honestly at the higher volumes I play at not having to fight the low feedback threshold of a piezo I feel it gives me a more natural sound than a piezo can. By way of comparison I also have a DPA 4099 mic on this bass that I almost never use anymore except very occasionally to send to FOH. If you're playing loud don't be too quick to write the Krivo off without trying it yourself especially the latest generation as he has evolved and improved them.
Click to expand...
 
#92
Francois Blais said:
Sorry for the off-topic drift but:
I bought a second-hand Krivo several years ago.
Probably one of the earlier models.
It was not humbucking, output was low, and the pole adjusters were poorly adjustables.
Did he improve all these things?
Click to expand...
Yes, the 2016 version is a bit smaller and lighter, no hum and easy to adjust the poles. It does not sound like other mag pickups.
 
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#93
I owned a KRivo in 2014, purchased to try on my EUB. IT was hum bucking , the pole pieces were a bit stiff, though that really isn't an issue once it's dialed in. Mine had the same hum noise that any passive hum bucked without a string to ground connectiOn will have sooner or later. So, not a big deal if I was plugged into a DI with a ground lift. For me even though the loc tite Velcro is a fairly solid mounting method, it still was precarious because I often play at the very end of the fingerboard. The first time it came loose (though it didn't totally fall off) of course the string balance went south. The best way to mount it for my situation was to build a nuts and bolts bracket. Didn't do that, for the trouble I'd just as soon mount an active P pickup (EMG)that doesn't have the inevitable ground noise. haven't got around to it. (Yet :-) )
 
#94
MR PC said:
I owned a KRivo in 2014, purchased to try on my EUB. IT was hum bucking , the pole pieces were a bit stiff, though that really isn't an issue once it's dialed in. Mine had the same hum noise that any passive hum bucked without a string to ground connectiOn will have sooner or later. So, not a big deal if I was plugged into a DI with a ground lift. For me even though the loc tite Velcro is a fairly solid mounting method, it still was precarious because I often play at the very end of the fingerboard. The first time it came loose (though it didn't totally fall off) of course the string balance went south. The best way to mount it for my situation was to build a nuts and bolts bracket. Didn't do that, for the trouble I'd just as soon mount an active P pickup (EMG)that doesn't have the inevitable ground noise. haven't got around to it. (Yet :) )
Click to expand...

I've never had any hum issues with my 2015 at rehearsal with no PA or on gigs going DI to FOH.

A hard bracket would be kinda nice for me too but I don't think I want to experiment with making screw holes in my fingerboard..... Autobody trim tape might be a more secure alternative to the Dual Lock velcro stuff. I've used it in the past and it's pretty bomber.

I wouldn't get my hopes up for a potted electric bass pickup to have anything close to the microphonic warmth of the Krivo. My experiments with doing that only got me a P-Bass on steroids kinda thing I didn't like at all other than forcing the DB into an electric bass gig....even then to my ears it seemed kinda fraudulent.
 
#95
Honestly I'd have to say that the KRIVO didn't sound much different than an active P bass pickup on my bass. I think he must be using those neodymium magnets like they use for some acoustic guitar sound hole pickups. A bit more brilliant than alnico or ceramic. if the KRIVO used fewer windings it might sound a bit broader and cleaner, but you'd need a booster preamp to bring up the level. So really, I think any magnetic pickup on an upright bass is fraudulent in terms of the true sound of the instrument. The primary sound is the core and windings of the strings, followed by any artifacts that make it through there.

But this is a PW thread! wasn't the original PW pu very different in construction than the current model?
 
#96
I will have to try it on my Cleveland just for shiggles but no other pickup can do what it does for my Eub. It's remarkable. Now the other disclaimer is that my EUB also has labella tapewounds on it so it has the added effect of being more ebg like. I'm tempted to put on a set of metal wound strings to see what the pickup does.
 
#97
MR PC said:
I think any magnetic pickup on an upright bass is fraudulent in terms of the true sound of the instrument.
Click to expand...

**** man when you get right down to it ANY kind of amplification is fraudulent in terms of the acoustic sound of the instrument. Unless you're doing what only a handful of players outside of the orchestral world can pull off and go sans amplification altogether you're compromising the the acoustic sound of the instrument to some degree. .....wait a sec, why am I debating this with someone who thinks an EMG on a DB is OK? I'm gonna log out, go drink four or five ounces of medium priced vodka and try and forget this conversation.
 
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#100
DoubleMIDI said:
What do you think is the expected market for the Palatino?
Hint: It's not serious professional double bass players...
Click to expand...
Well if you know how to seriously play the double bass, with a few modifications you can get the Palatino to sound and play as well as any electric upright on the market that costs 5 or $6,000 or more. Here's my situation, I paid $800 for my Palatino VE=500, added a new bridge, new pickup, new tailpiece, fingerboard set up. now even if I spent another $1000 in modifications, I'd still be about $4,000 under the cost of any serious electric upright bass out there on the market which I have heard and believe me they are far cry from sounding much better than what my Palatino bass sounds like. Whether we talk about a solid piece of wood type or a minuscule sound chamber style electric upright the end result is not that big to justify the difference in cost. I agree that these other electric uprights costing an arm and a leg have better quality pieces but in end are definitely not worth the money spent.
I have been a professional double bassist for over 30 years and played with many international jazz artists from around the world. I have an 1800 french double bass $25,000 which is what I paid for it many years ago. Believe me I know what a double bass is supposed to sound like and these $6,000 or more electric upright basses do not even come close to sounding like a real double bass. Therefore anyone who spends $6,000 for an electric upright bass has got to be out of his mind. If I were to spend $6,000 , I would just go out and buy decent removable neck double bass and go that way but since I wanted something that is much easier to travel with, I went for the electric upright bass hence the Palatino because if I wanted to throw $6000 out the window I surely wouldn't spend it on an electric upright bass. The reason I mentioned that it would be great to have a pro double bass chat section is exactly because the majority of people on this blog who own Palatino basses are more concerned about how great they can get them to look rather than learning how to seriously play them and probably because of their lack of experience also end up waisting their time spending their money on useless modifications rather than going directly to the sound source and getting that to happen at a higher level instead of spending money on 100 cheap pickups and think they will arrive at getting the best sound. I've read different posts of people in here who think they are Dr. Frankenstein and no matter what stupid modification they attempt using the cheapest of whatever they are experimenting with that they will arrive at some kind of worthwhile result. You still want to talk about serious or should we leave it up to the amateurs to do that?
My next and last modification that will be done to my Palatino bass will be having my luthier take the neck off and install a clip-on system so that I can remove the neck and travel as if I was going golfing with a well padded hardshell golf case. Total Cost? maybe $400 or a few cents more. Do we really need gold tuning machines and knobs or whatever?
P.S
Just to make myself clear, I am talking Canadian dollars when I speak of dollars.
Amen !!!!!!!
 
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