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Double Bass Planet Wing pickup
- Thread starter Jaromir
- Start date
Good idea. I'm kind of new in here and wasn't aware new comers were allowed to do this.
Thanks
Horgenstein, you don't need to get set up.
What I said is that the Palatino (like the Stagg) is not targeted at the serious professional double bass player market. So you cannot expect answers from this group of players.
What you do and why you did it is up to you, but having expectations that other serious double bass players did the same as you is not very realistic. There is nothing wrong about asking, but you shouldn't be disappointed if you don't get the answers you were expecting.
An EUB is not a double bass sonically. The best it can be is to be similar to an amplified double bass with a bridge mounted pickup. And on EUBs where the bridge cannot move with the body (solid bodies or badly constructed hollow chamber bodies), strings are a lot harder to start with the bow than on a double bass. That's the way it is. Either get used to it, change the instrument (if possible) or switch to something else.
Cutting the cost by people who do not know much about double basses results in poor instruments that might be improved to some point (but not beyond that) by the player. And in most cases the point where improvements are no longer possible without building a new instrument is not obvious to a player who isn't a luthier too.
Most serious players don't want to fiddle around with an instrument to get it playable but want one that works immediately, so these cheap instruments that need several modifications are out of question for them. Those who think better instruments are too expensive for the sonical output produced usually stay away from EUBs.
Some of them might get a removable neck double bass, a folding double bass, a cut instrument like the Czech Ease or in rare cases a smaller body upright like the Eminence. I know that these instruments are usually not cheaper than better EUBs, but they usually sound better and have less problems than EUBs.
I guess one of these would be a better solution for you at the end.
And yes, everybody can open a new thread.
A quick look at the rules might be helpful before you do that.
What I said is that the Palatino (like the Stagg) is not targeted at the serious professional double bass player market. So you cannot expect answers from this group of players.
What you do and why you did it is up to you, but having expectations that other serious double bass players did the same as you is not very realistic. There is nothing wrong about asking, but you shouldn't be disappointed if you don't get the answers you were expecting.
An EUB is not a double bass sonically. The best it can be is to be similar to an amplified double bass with a bridge mounted pickup. And on EUBs where the bridge cannot move with the body (solid bodies or badly constructed hollow chamber bodies), strings are a lot harder to start with the bow than on a double bass. That's the way it is. Either get used to it, change the instrument (if possible) or switch to something else.
Cutting the cost by people who do not know much about double basses results in poor instruments that might be improved to some point (but not beyond that) by the player. And in most cases the point where improvements are no longer possible without building a new instrument is not obvious to a player who isn't a luthier too.
Most serious players don't want to fiddle around with an instrument to get it playable but want one that works immediately, so these cheap instruments that need several modifications are out of question for them. Those who think better instruments are too expensive for the sonical output produced usually stay away from EUBs.
Some of them might get a removable neck double bass, a folding double bass, a cut instrument like the Czech Ease or in rare cases a smaller body upright like the Eminence. I know that these instruments are usually not cheaper than better EUBs, but they usually sound better and have less problems than EUBs.
I guess one of these would be a better solution for you at the end.
And yes, everybody can open a new thread.
A quick look at the rules might be helpful before you do that.
I love my planet wing, it would be nice if we could keep this thread focused on that, ironically mine is mounted on a Kolstein Travel bass which is my best solution for a convenient, small portable bass that not only kinda sounds like a DB but is one and sounds great amplified or not. So I have come to the conclusion that EUBs aren't for me. I've owned a couple different NS basses as well which were nice too CR4T, CR5M and Omni 5.
That all being said what is this $6000 EUB you speak of? Even the NS CR4m is around $3000, maybe 4k canadian?
That all being said what is this $6000 EUB you speak of? Even the NS CR4m is around $3000, maybe 4k canadian?
I'd guess it's the Kolstein....except they're more like $8+k USD last I checked. What else is there that's up into that range? Nothing I can think of.....
My bass is a Kolstein busetto travel bass, but it's not an EUB it is a fully carved acoustic instrument with a downsized body. I would never even consider it in the EUB category.
I happen to live close to the Kolstein shop, my bass does not have a removable neck, it did not need to be shipped to me nor did I need the travel trunk. I've owned it since 2011 and the price was WELL under 5k. I don't know the current prices.
Oh I agree they are beautiful acoustic instruments and not at all an EUB.....I've considered one as my only DB and may still go that way someday. I was just wondering what the $6000 "EUB" in question might be? There's nothing I know of in that price range other than the Kolstein which granted is not an EUB but might be mistaken for one by someone who doesn't know better.
I did make the decision to have the Kolstein be my only double bass, I don't regret it at all. I do hope someday to have the time for a community orchestra and a full size instrument but that's probably the only drawback.
Well as far as a serious EUB on the market for professional bass players which I am, I sure haven't heard or played one and let me tell you I've tried just about everyone out there and for the way they sound there's no way I would pay $6000 dollars for something that doesn't sound much better than how I have my Palatino set up now. We all know that a double bass is a double bass and EUB is a EUB and then there are those you mentioned like the Czech Ease and the folding double bass. As far as the Eminence goes at $3000 which I have played and was not impressed at all. I am still further ahead with my Palatino sound right now and the various little changes( bridge, tailpiece , fingerboard set up and Full Circle pickup) which I had done to it and still comes to a bag of peanuts as far as cost compared to the higher grade models out there. I already have a $25,000 french double bass and have no intention on spending useless money on a higher grade EUB since it isn't worth it in any way cause they basically all sound the same and by me spending $200 for a Full Circle pickup for my Palatino makes the bass sounds as good as any of those high grade EUBs. I've been playing double bass long enough to know this and the reason for me buying this cheaper EUB the Palatino is to be able to have something which is set up to my licking and sounds good enough to cut the gig and to travel abroad with. By doing this I no longer will have to deal with airport cargo maniacs, insane fees, or showing up at some jazz festival where they have a rented bass waiting for me that sounds like sh.... with the worst set up you could imagine. By me asking questions about anyone knowing of recent developments or new discoveries or gear that will make them sound better doesn't seem so far out to me since with the speed of technology today anything is possible just like the nightmare with pickups us double bass players have had to deal with in the last 40 years and finally today with the advancement of technology we now have some great pickups to choose from. So who knows, we could wake tomorrow morning and get news that there a new turbo engine that you can hook up to your EUB where you can fly to your gigs or a new sound module for EUBs that sound 98% like a real double bass. Since you seem to be a disbeliever in all of this I'll keep you informed the moment I hear of any of these.
Cheers
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As others already said, this is not the right place to discuss that.
If you cannot understand the meaning of what I have written, any further discussion doesn't make sense. So I stop here.
Good luck with your new thread.
If you cannot understand the meaning of what I have written, any further discussion doesn't make sense. So I stop here.
Good luck with your new thread.
Everyone in here seems to be talking bass talk. Where should I go? to the hardware or the living room department?
Sheeeshhhh !!!!
I already started a new thread. I was just answering you comments about EUBs
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Good luck with the search Horganstein. Many of have sought a solution (even if just for fun) and nothing has been satisfactory. I've spent thousands of dollars looking for a solution and modifications that might work. Using a Krivo on a SLV has been the best thing I've heard/seen for a EUB. Anything better would require a cut down DB like the CE or Kolstein.
There's nothing that replaces that big hollow body that a DB provides. Nothing has been been able to simulate it.
There's nothing that replaces that big hollow body that a DB provides. Nothing has been been able to simulate it.
Harvie S was just year a few weeks ago and did a clinic using the same setup with Planet Wing. Really really great sound and he was playing through a loander GK MB cab. I was really impressed with the sound he was getting - even acoustic it was still pretty loud. Enough for a small room and two guitarists. He was using Heritages for strings.
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Yes no doubt the Kolstein bass sounds good. I lived in Italy for 11 years since I had gone over to tour with saxophonist Steve Grossman and which is where Miroslav Vitous also lives and he also plays the Kolstein. in the end lots of $$$$$ and I have said a million times , I will not spend 5 or $6,000 for one of those or any EUB bass on the market. I've heard and played the Yamaha Silent bass , Eminence and more of them which again is way above the cost of my Palatino bass which right now is set up really well and I am using the Full circle pickup on it. To tell you the truth my Palatino sounds as good or better than the Silent bass or Eminence. The right amplification is also important in getting the best sound on these EUB. I know what a real double bass should sound like since I have an 1800 $30,000 french bass and have been playing for over 30 years so I know exactly what the possibilities are and what I'm getting into with EUBs since I have ears that work fine. The way my Palatino is set up it certainly doesn't sound like an electric fretless bass like most of the EUB do. My reason for calling out for ideas is because as you probably know very well, 40 years ago double bass pickups were a complete drag and with today's technology we finally have some great double bass pickups out there. Don't any of you remember how the dreadful Underwood pick up used to make a $20,000 double bass sound like an electric upright ?. And so nothing is impossible as far as getting up one day and boom a new gadget will have come out for EUBs to sound even closer to the real deal. In the meantime my low cost Palatino believe it or not is far from being the worst EUB on the market even if the costly ones come with better set ups and hardware, who cares if I had to set up my own for very little extra money. In the end I win
I believe you about the Palatino. I've owned several EUBs myself. The only reason why I stuck with the Yamaha is because of the form factor and how much it folds down, and really not much other reason than that.
Unfortunately, I don't believe pickup technology has advanced that far past the underwood. Some people have found a good combination that works for them and their basses but most pickups are still relying on a similar design. I've tried both the FC and Planet wing (among many others from the pickup drawer) and wasn't happy with any of those. I wasnt happy with the original onboard pickup that comes with the Yamaha either. There's just no replacing that big box of a body. Even a mediocre laminate DB still sounds better than an expensive EUB.
I feel the pain of the touring pro. There's no easy way around it.
Unfortunately, I don't believe pickup technology has advanced that far past the underwood. Some people have found a good combination that works for them and their basses but most pickups are still relying on a similar design. I've tried both the FC and Planet wing (among many others from the pickup drawer) and wasn't happy with any of those. I wasnt happy with the original onboard pickup that comes with the Yamaha either. There's just no replacing that big box of a body. Even a mediocre laminate DB still sounds better than an expensive EUB.
I feel the pain of the touring pro. There's no easy way around it.
Thanks for the info.
I'm a little confused when you say the pickup technology hasn't moved forward very much from the Underwood because I have a full circle pickup on my regular double bass and it sounds great and most pro players today are using it or the david gage pickup. The Underwood to me is like the caveman's pickup compared to the ones I just mentioned. Just one question before closing, I you have tried all these great pickups and do not like them, then which pickup are you using on your Yamaha bass?
Cheers.
Fundamentally, the technology used on the Fishman and the Underwood are virtually the same. It's a piezo transducer, and the only difference is that the FC places the pickup in the adjuster and uses a passive filter. It still has the characteristics of a piezo pickup. Rev Solo, Realist, Lifeline, PW, Schatten, etc. still all use the same design, where they place the piezo and how they're built is the difference.
Pickups I've tried on the Yammy: PW, FC, Bp100, Rev Solo, Krivo,
Others I still own or have owned in the past: Ehrlund, Dyn-B, Stat-B, Realist, Underwood, DPA-4099B, ATM35, various mics for use on a stand.
For my DB, the BP100 sounds pretty good but I resort to the Realist since it doesn't have grounding issues when I play in louder situations. Otherwise, the DPA4099B is my weapon of choice when possible.
My conclusion is that without the big body, any EUB will come off sounding very nasal. Piezo pickups just make that nasal sound even more boxy. The best Ive heard actually has come from magnetics like Krivo or youtube videos with the mag pups on the NSD CRM4. The best piezo result was actually sticking the Rev Solo where the onboard Yamaha pickup used to be. I had to chisel that slot out to make it fit. Result was still too nasal.
EUBs I've owned in the past: Ergo4, NSD CR4 and maybe I think one other that I can't seem to remember. I've played the Eminence and wasn't impressed either. Soundwise, I agree with you, they're all similar in a way - not that great.
With the Krivo it depends on the physical approach and the EQ settings. I've only had the Krivo for a couple weeks so I'm still figuring my way around it. I notice the EB qualities more on the low notes but possible using a different set of strings than the tapewounds might yield a better result. I haven't had a lot of time to experiment. Of course playing arco with such a setup kind throws everything out the window, which is why I say that a DB simply cannot be replicated without resorting to a cut down version of the real thing (like a CE or Traveler).
Yes not an easy task in getting a EUB to sound great no matter what model and getting them to sound as acoustic as possible. I have yet to try the modified Realist pickup which is on the Eminence bass. Could be the one or better than the others we have all tried. I am patiently waiting since my low cost Palatino is well set up and sounding as good as anything out there but of course things could be better and so who knows what is to come. Maybe some acoustic modeler for bass which is only available for guitar at the moment but could be something that could bring everything a little closer to the real deal. My ears are open and always on the prowl.
Cheers
