Playing Bass "correctly" with guitar

[paulears]

I had to smile - I don't think I've ever had to play the same as the guitarist? Sure, my kind of music is older, but pretty wide, and my job at the bottom is engine room stuff with the drummer, that the others play over - keys and guitar. In a few songs, we'll play very similar, or maybe even identical for a bar or two, or for effect - in fact while rehearsing the other day, I got a bit bored and started to play one of the popular riffs from the Blues Brothers - Peter Gunn Theme. The guitarist joined in and played the same thing. That's the only time I can think of when we have ever played the same notes.

You two just have to sort it, I guess - if your style of music NEEDS this style of playing then you will both have to work it out - but if you are playing songs that don't do it, then it will sound very odd if this happens all the time?

 

[obimark]

First off- for ANY cover you absolutely have the right to play as recorded if you choose to. Period. Or add a bit of your own style. Period. So long as you hit any recognizable key bass riffs.
Second off this guy is a douche-bag- he won't improve. Leave or be aggravated.

 

[delta7fred]

Do you record rehearsals, if you don't you should!

Often I will play one way in one verse and different the next then listen to the playback at home and make a judgement on which is best (or if they are both rubbish try and come up with something else).

I can only think of one song where I double for a few bars what the guitar plays.

 

[Shimmi]

Thank-you for all the responses. Especially to those who went against the grain and didn't say "shag the guitarist" right away. Keep in mind everyone has 6-10+ years on me as a musician and I am no Les Claypool I honestly had my first lesson about 6-7 years ago so I'm still fresh. My guitarist means well I'm sure he just wants things to fit together, we are a 3 piece band all with full time jobs and hobbies and we each have things of the band that we have to do(I for instant control art image, marketing/facebook, and sometimes manage gigs) My guitarists books gigs, helps pay for promotional items(drummer too, as well as drummer fixes a lot of arguments between the two of us) and has put a lot of his hard earned cash down on equipment and lighting(for instance technically I'm still playing on his amps). We have disagreements but no matter how ignorant things may have sounded he isn't a 100% dick he probably just cranky(we are all quitting smoking...kinda of not really).

So keep in mind there is more to our efforts rather than "Guitarist telling bassist what to play" we all have made equal contributions and despite getting into bitch matches we get poopie done. Just sometimes we bump heads and when it comes to claw and teeth we both get sensitive and say stupid poopie, I've done the same...just cant think of anything off hand.

I'm sure Song 2 just sounded weird to him because I don't play with a distortion pedal(I really don't like those but understand I kinda need one for that song) Also many of you assumed before even listening to my sample that the bassist was right so gotta say you all seem a tab biased. lol We played today just ran through the set-list and he made no mention of wanting me to change song 2(I just played the original version I know) nor did he mention anything of the other song we were working on. I will try to post a recording of that song though because there is simply no other way to find out unless you all hear it. I removed my sound-cloud post but if anyone didnt get to hear it just message me and I'll send you the link.

Also our newer songs are sounding way better its just these older ones we've been playing the way we play them since we were a band so now when he thinks I should change a few things I get kinda sensitive because we had stamped these songs done ages ago.

 

[Shimmi]

Mostly when doubling its on the intros, beginning verses, and outros... and chorus... but something he'll hold a note and I'll do runs or vise versa, but a lot fo the stuff we are playing has been very similar.

 

[Arvin]

I always looked at the group like a sub sandwich, and the bass is like the bun, surrounding it, holding it all together.

Or in some cases, the bass is like a pair of buns.

 

[Shimmi]

What part are you happy with? It sounds like the guitard is riding you constantly, micromanaging you, and you aren't allowed to play your own bass lines. Give him an octave pedal and move on.

Well for all you know I could totally suck and this is his last attempt to try and help me. LOL no not really but you don't really know, maybe somethings I play should be what he's playing at least some of the time. I feel that maybe the reason he wants me to change some of the older songs is lately we've shifted to following each other syncing same notes (playing very similar things) and break off into our own things less and less, so in comparison it makes the older songs seem off so maybe he's just trying to correct it. Take for instance our latest song we wrote in a day, very easy to play, crowd loves it it sticks in peoples heads, then there's our older more complicated stuff that we worked on for a while that has more than just verse chorus verse chorus. I suppose we are all learnign and working on our music making formula. I'm sure we'll work out the kinks

 

[tr4252]

Haven't read the whole thread, so if this has been said already, I apologize in advance.

Play exactly as the guitar player does, including solos. Sing in unison with him. Go to the bathroom when he does. Get a six string bass with a really short scale. Then put guitar strings on it. Practice night and day until you're better than him in every way. Then tell him he must play bass, but must never play the same song you are playing, or even in the same band. Then tell him his puppy has just died. Then kill his puppy.

He will admire and respect you.

Tom

 

[HolmeBass]

Stick to your guns, tell him to say that Blur played their hit song wrong is one of the stupidest things ever uttered in the history of the universe. Tell him you will play the bass part as it appears on that song.

Frankly, you will eventually have to quit or beat the snot out of the guitarist. Constant unison is BORING and boring is bad in music.

 

[tr4252]

I agree with HolmeBass, especially the snot part.

My first advice was wrong; leave the puppy alone.

In my past, I was the guitard, but had always been in awe of the bassists I was lucky enough to play with. Not just because they sounded good, but for the way they thought like bass players. Different than me. Better at bass because they played notes and rests I wouldn't have thought of. Not that I didn't, eventually, but never really acquired the instincts for it.

Be good at what you do.

Tom

 

[moody]

I was once a very lazy bass player. I was in a cover band for a couple of years where the guitarists would play songs and I would play along with them and never actually listen to the original track. In some cases what I played was pretty much right, in others I missed iconic bass lines that I just didn't know were there.

However, I have rarely followed the exact line the guitarist did. Even if the notes were the same the pulse follows the drums.

 

[groovatron]

I'm just going to finish your sentence.....


Playing bass "correctly" with guitar can be done in infinite ways. There is no right or wrong way to play with musicians sporting other instruments, just different ways. As a bass player, your numeral UNO job is to keep impeccable time and become one with the kick drum. After that, it's all up to opinion and interpretation.

If you don't enjoy playing the songs like your buddy requests that you do, then just don't. Music should be fun. If he is stifling your creative mojo, then walk away and find a new playground to enjoy. Life's to short to play with control freak musician dictators.

As much of a huge Frank Zappa fan I am, I could have never played with the dude.........well...maybe I'd make that exception

 

[mojo76]

guitarist that think they are good are mostly ear blind to bass and only hear guitar parts when they are young. At least youre a 3 piece band. I would hate for you to have two guitarist playing the same thing then demanding you to follow them. Serve the song.

 

[MrBKerth]

If it were me op I'd delve deeper into theory. I felt the same as far as I was playing the same thing as the guitarist but in reality I wasn't. Use passing tones and try less perfect harmonies that are inclusive of vocals. Your experience may be different but that's what I do along with fills and stuff to keep it fresh

 

[vin*tone]

He needs to listen to music and hear what the bass player is doing and why.

When you learn covers its a great opportunity to pick up tips from the greats. Blur are popular because of their songs and the arrangements work well to bring out the essential melodies etc etc... It's likely they tried many different ideas including the one your guitarist thinks is right. They ditched it because it's not - he's wrong. If your friend wants to learn what made Blur a great (or hugely popular) band he needs to step off his pedestal and accept that there's more than one way to write a good bass line.

Chilli Peppers might be another good band to study - bass and guitar play similar riffs a lot, then contrast and compliment riffs in other sections. It's a great way to get the most out of your band's line-up.

 

[Bassitudes]

Okay first off I am an amateur Bassist, that just means I love what I do although technically I'm "pro" if only by the most technical definition of getting compensated for shows.

Anyway recently Many of my bass lines I've been reworking in accordance with my guitarist who insists that many of my bass lines aren't going along with what he is playing. Which I understand I am a bit "fresh" so I've made some adjustments... however I noticed almost every new song we've been working on they have me play the EXACT same thing as the guitarist... Is this just what a bass player is suppose to do? Don't get me wrong makes my job easier but I figured you can play a whole variety of things that will go with the guitar.

Most recently which made me question my "mentor" is we cover Song 2 by the blur and he insists I change my bass... There is only bass in the chorus of that song, I looked up the tabs watched the video and played it exactly like the original but he says "I dont care they played it wrong" And is now having me follow him...which to my untrained ears just makes the song waaaay boring. Anyway is there a way to figure this out? I have an open mind and most of my bass lines have been sounding more "with it" after the "adjustments" but recently one of my favorite songs to play (one of the only ones where I actually play more than 2 strings lol) came under question and I really dont want to change the way I play it, he says I have to to go along with him and im like then you change what your playing he says he cant or hell have to rewrite the song which is basically what hes asking me to do... is there a way to find out if my guitarist is just anal, is there a radius you can drift from what the guitarist is playing or is it really just playing what the guitarist is playing?

your guitarist is trying to make you into his personal bitch to take any creative control from you out of the picture. Resist. See if you can find someone who actually knows how to play IN A BAND to play guitar with you guys, quit, or make him shut up and let you do what you do. Bass through the chorus on Song 2 because Blur themselves played it wrong? This guy's an egomaniac. As the bassist, if you feel a song is boring you know what's up. Don't listen to him.

 

[Bassitudes]

That dude doesn't have a clue what he's talking about.... if bassists followed the guitard all the time then bands like Rush, Primus, Red Hot Chili Peppers, Animals as Leaders, ect, ect, ect wouldn't exist. I'm not saying that it's always a bad thing to follow the guitar (bands like Boston have done it very successfully) but changing a COVER so that the bass just follows the guitar is completely ridiculous and boring.

In most bands where it seems like the bass is following the guitar they're either just actually both playing the same riff (which the bassist probably wrote) or playing the same chord. In actuality the bass is locking in with drums, which creates the entire foundation of the track. I don't know why people always perceive the guitar as leading. Those guys are the last people you want to be following, lmfao.

 

[Robert B]

There's nothing wrong with the occasional suggestion, especially if you agree it's a good one. But anyone who thinks the bass should always be following the guitar is just wrong. His constantly telling you to change your bass line tells me that he views you as less than his equal. If that's the case, that will probably never change. I recommend you assert yourself and decide which bass lines sound the best to you (including his when you agree they do sound better). Be tactful but firm. Just stick to your guns and if he can't accept that, an amicable parting of the ways is in order. You play bass to express yourself and have fun - not to be someone's lackey!

 

[boomtisk]

Some food for thought: I used to think Rage Against The Machine sucked because Tim pretty much doubled all of their song's main riffs. I can't express how much I felt like an idiot when it hit me.

Like it or not, in some heavy metal-influenced styles you're not going to get that "wall of sound" any other way other than closely working together with the guitar player. Even the smallest of mistakes can ruin the effect.

The thing is, in styles like that, the rhythm guitar is already playing the bass line. If you're not going to "shadow" it note for note, all you're going to get is mush.

And yes, it took me years to finally accept this and learn how to keep my ego in check.

 

[rolandm]

In bands I have been in, I play the song the way I want to play it, period. I'll listen to suggestions and am certainly open to input, but in the end, the decision is mine. Covers, originals, it doesn't matter. I worked long enough learning my instrument to know what to play and where to play it. I have developed a good enough sense of taste that when the bass needs to lay down or stay in the pocket, that's exactly what happens. It depends on what the song wants, not what the musicians want. And if you have a good ear for dynamic, tension, release, and musical emotional expression, you'll do fine.

Song 2 has no bass in the verses because that's what sets it up to be as bone crushing as it is in the chorus. If the guitar player doesn't get that, yet thinks he's qualified to say it's wrong, that's just ego talking. Being a guitarist doesn't mean you're always right and what you want goes. Sounds to me like you have a good ear for musicality in a song and a bass line. Don't let that be walked on. Tell them thank you for the input, but you'll stick with playing it the way it was recorded because the song has more dynamic that way.