Tell him to buy an octave pedal and you should find a new band.
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Playing Bass "correctly" with guitar
- Thread starter Shimmi
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Game over. He's not anal, he's an asshat.
I'm gonna go against the grain of most of the posts here.
listening to your posted sample, the guitar and bass lines are rhythmically fighting to my ear, weakening the overall rhythmic identity of the phrase.
Perhaps by "play what I play" your guitarist really means "support the rhythmic phrasing I am using, don't fight it."
Which line is "right" is decided traditionally by sending each musicians on sacred quest for the 3 lost rings of Equanimity, Communication and Compromise.
Much like "lock with the kick drum", the advice to "play what the guitar plays" usually means "respect the rhythm of the song and don't clash" rather than "copy the kick/ guitar". Of course everyone needs to respect the rhythm, not just the bass.
listening to your posted sample, the guitar and bass lines are rhythmically fighting to my ear, weakening the overall rhythmic identity of the phrase.
Perhaps by "play what I play" your guitarist really means "support the rhythmic phrasing I am using, don't fight it."
Which line is "right" is decided traditionally by sending each musicians on sacred quest for the 3 lost rings of Equanimity, Communication and Compromise.
Much like "lock with the kick drum", the advice to "play what the guitar plays" usually means "respect the rhythm of the song and don't clash" rather than "copy the kick/ guitar". Of course everyone needs to respect the rhythm, not just the bass.
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This is wisdom. Your own notes can still sync up with his timing. Sometimes that's better than a call/answer vibe. Switch it up depending on the tune.
I've been playing for 30 years and have maybe met 10 guitarists who have any clue about bass.
Try to be a good band mate. Play what you think is best for the song. Be open to discussing things with your mates and making the band the best it can be..........
But if all he wants you to do is double his parts and that's not ok with you, move on. I bet you find a new band before he finds a new bassist
Try to be a good band mate. Play what you think is best for the song. Be open to discussing things with your mates and making the band the best it can be..........
But if all he wants you to do is double his parts and that's not ok with you, move on. I bet you find a new band before he finds a new bassist
I was playing with some guys for the first time and they had sent me a set list beforehand. We started playing "Cocaine."
The guitar player stopped and said, "Hey, man, what are you playing? Cocaine goes like this..." And he plays the guitar riff. I told him that he was right, that's how his part goes, but the bassline goes like this ...
He said he didn't think that was right. Guitar 2 and the drummer agreed with him.
I said that JJ Cale thought it was right and he asked who that was. I told him that he wrote the song.
Guitarist said, "No, Clapton wrote it."
I pulled out my gig book that I had put together with the "as recorded" sheet music for the song and said, "See?"
Guitarist, "I can't read that."
Me, "See this top line with the squiggly do? That is the guitar part. Now see this line with the curved deal and the dots? That is the bass part. Notice how the dots on the lines are different. Why don't we just try playing this way?"
After, Guitarist, "That sounded pretty good."
They let me play what I wanted after that.
The guitar player stopped and said, "Hey, man, what are you playing? Cocaine goes like this..." And he plays the guitar riff. I told him that he was right, that's how his part goes, but the bassline goes like this ...
He said he didn't think that was right. Guitar 2 and the drummer agreed with him.
I said that JJ Cale thought it was right and he asked who that was. I told him that he wrote the song.
Guitarist said, "No, Clapton wrote it."
I pulled out my gig book that I had put together with the "as recorded" sheet music for the song and said, "See?"
Guitarist, "I can't read that."
Me, "See this top line with the squiggly do? That is the guitar part. Now see this line with the curved deal and the dots? That is the bass part. Notice how the dots on the lines are different. Why don't we just try playing this way?"
After, Guitarist, "That sounded pretty good."
They let me play what I wanted after that.
Just a common misconception here.
In a proper rock band, bass follows drums, rhythm guitar follows bass, the rest comes topping this and everyone listens to everybody.
If the guitar player wants you to stick to what he does, it means he isn't listening but to himself, which is bad news.
If he's got zero knowledge of harmony it may not be a good idea for him to be in charge of setting up the songs.
In a proper rock band, bass follows drums, rhythm guitar follows bass, the rest comes topping this and everyone listens to everybody.
If the guitar player wants you to stick to what he does, it means he isn't listening but to himself, which is bad news.
If he's got zero knowledge of harmony it may not be a good idea for him to be in charge of setting up the songs.
By "behind the beat" I mean you will be with it. You know like if I'm behind something, I'm for it not against it.
I just agree with your statement. My odd choice of words made it seem like I disagree with you. I should have just gave you a +1.
Cut me some slack, it's early morning here I miss some of my cognitive skills.
Don't sweat it. I know it's frustrating, but if you continue to play and grow as a bassist, there will come a day where you will not deal with guitarists like the one you have now. You'll be dealing with mature, professional guitarists, and they will follow you.
When someone says the band that originally wrote a song, "played it wrong", that's a nonsensical statement.
I'm sure your guitarist is a good guy, and he's trying hard, but he needs to grow a lot more as a musician. I hope he does.
If I were playing with that guitarist, I'd want him to check his ego and to try a little more flexibility (and civility). "They're playing it wrong" is a pretty rigid, ego-driven stance. He wants things his way, and pushes his agenda pretty hard. The best thing you can do is to keep your cool, be professional, state the facts, and strive to work together and create agreement. Ego battles never end well. If he persists in his attitude, you ultimately have to decide if it's worth it to stick with the project. If not, stay professional, and bow out. I'm sure you have better things to do with your time than to put up with that kind of treatment.
Regarding your role in songs, if there's an established bandleader, you may have to do what he or she says; sometimes that's just how it is. If not, you and the rest of the band have to decide how important it is to play faithful covers. If it's really important, play it just like the original. If not, sometimes it's worth it to change things up. I can think of several songs where on the original, the bass lays out for a time, but I choose to play on those parts because it fits the song well in a live context. Sometimes I play simpler lines than the original, sometimes more complex -- but all because it fits the song as the band plays it. And if someone else in the band doesn't like what I'm playing, that's an invitation to discuss it.
Regarding your role in songs, if there's an established bandleader, you may have to do what he or she says; sometimes that's just how it is. If not, you and the rest of the band have to decide how important it is to play faithful covers. If it's really important, play it just like the original. If not, sometimes it's worth it to change things up. I can think of several songs where on the original, the bass lays out for a time, but I choose to play on those parts because it fits the song well in a live context. Sometimes I play simpler lines than the original, sometimes more complex -- but all because it fits the song as the band plays it. And if someone else in the band doesn't like what I'm playing, that's an invitation to discuss it.
Maybe you folks can record the song(s) in question with you doing the bass part "your" way and the other suggested way. Then all of you listen to it and decide what you prefer. I play with a bunch of guys (as a percussionist) and when we are working out songs we try a few different variations -- all recorded. One of the guys uploads the recordings to the cloud and all of us listen to it during the week. Next time we get together we discuss what we like, didn't like, listen some more, and go from there.
One thing that I like about this is it allows us to just move forward during practice and also eliminates any rash decisions or folks having hurt feelings as we've all been listening and thinking about the tunes before we decide.
One thing that I like about this is it allows us to just move forward during practice and also eliminates any rash decisions or folks having hurt feelings as we've all been listening and thinking about the tunes before we decide.
"however I noticed almost every new song we've been working on they have me play the EXACT same thing as the guitarist... Is this just what a bass player is suppose to do?"
No. If you're a rock bassist listen to John Paul Jones in Zeppelin and Duff McKagen in G-n-R tracks. Or take another genre. Listen to Verdine White in Earth, Wind, and Fire. I like to think of the guitar as the right hand on a piano and the bass as the left hand.
No. If you're a rock bassist listen to John Paul Jones in Zeppelin and Duff McKagen in G-n-R tracks. Or take another genre. Listen to Verdine White in Earth, Wind, and Fire. I like to think of the guitar as the right hand on a piano and the bass as the left hand.
Call him out on it. He's not the bass player. You don't tell him what to do, or how to play his lines...so he shouldn't be telling you how to play yours.
Have him listen to Smoke on the Water.
I will watch the guitarist for the cord changes, and I watch the drummer's foot pedal for the beat, but I'm playing my own thing whether they are roots, power cords, maj/min 6th arpeggios, working in the pentatonic, triads, walking lines, or whatever. If he thinks I am too busy doing too many 1/16th notes, and wants a more open simpler groove, that's fine. But I'm the bassist, not him.
I will watch the guitarist for the cord changes, and I watch the drummer's foot pedal for the beat, but I'm playing my own thing whether they are roots, power cords, maj/min 6th arpeggios, working in the pentatonic, triads, walking lines, or whatever. If he thinks I am too busy doing too many 1/16th notes, and wants a more open simpler groove, that's fine. But I'm the bassist, not him.
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Bass and Guitar ARE NOT the same thing only an octave apart.
While it is sometimes an effective musical device to play a motif together to reenforce a theme, it rarely works well for more than a measure or two.
I have always had a problem with guitar players who want to "show me how the bass goes" and in my my experience those who do don't really understand music all that well.
Most guitar players play without regard to what the drummer is doing. That's not a very good strategy for effective bass.
While it is sometimes an effective musical device to play a motif together to reenforce a theme, it rarely works well for more than a measure or two.
I have always had a problem with guitar players who want to "show me how the bass goes" and in my my experience those who do don't really understand music all that well.
Most guitar players play without regard to what the drummer is doing. That's not a very good strategy for effective bass.
