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Playing Bass "correctly" with guitar

#81
tr4252 said:
Haven't read the whole thread, so if this has been said already, I apologize in advance.

Play exactly as the guitar player does, including solos. Sing in unison with him. Go to the bathroom when he does. Get a six string bass with a really short scale. Then put guitar strings on it. Practice night and day until you're better than him in every way. Then tell him he must play bass, but must never play the same song you are playing, or even in the same band. Then tell him his puppy has just died. Then kill his puppy.

He will admire and respect you.

Tom
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This.
 
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#82
Okay I think I may have added some to what the guitarist originally said. I don't think he said word for word "Then they are playing it wrong" I think a more closer phrase he said was "I don't care how the original is played, it's a cover we should play what sounds best"<<Still a strong ego in that but slightly less ignorant than "they played it wrong"Essentially it's the same thing only less dickish.

Thank-you for everyone's input. I think I'm going to have a personal convo with just the drummer and ask for his opinion on this, he's more open minded and of the 3 of us has the most experience. It just sucks because sing the guitar player has a bit of an ego the drummer rarely asserts himself but I'll talk to him and say look, if somethings off you tell me, don't just mimic what so and so says be honest and listen for it. They have been a few occasions where I had a really cool idea, or riff, or song we were going to work on that me and the drummer practiced but eventually through the guitar players influence it just didn't happen.

Also keep in mind that although we have our murderface/toki wartooth quarrels and what not we are also pretty good friends and are getting better every day and on the good days we do have fun its jsut the occasional bump in the road.

I really don't think he means to come off as a dick I think he just thinks he's helping. Also had a conversation and I think the issue as pointed out earlier is communication, Since we aren't "musically trained" we trip over definitions and get different meanings from each other. I think a lot of the songs it wouldn't hurt to play similar notes however not the whole freakin song.

Also I think something happened because last practice I played normal and he didn't tell me to do whatever, I suspect he was bitching about it at work(works at guitar center) and one of his coworkers straightened him out. Not sure but he did back off the whole practice.

Also I think I'm going to look into getting some pro lessons, I've gotten pretty far on my own on bass but I really need to learn some actual musical terms so I'm not the weakest link.
 
#83
mambo4 said:
So many responses that are basically "f*** the guitard / don't let others tell you what you should play" etc etc
Everybody should listen to the example the OP posted.

The basic task is to serve the song, not the ego of either the guitarist - or yourself.
the only way to know is to listen
bass players are not slaves
but we are also not magically superior in taste
sometimes other players hear things you don't
sometimes the guitarist is right, however poorly they say it.
if a fellow player hears something "wrong" in your part
why not try to figure out exactly what that is
perhaps you will be enlightened
the only way to know is to listen
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THANKYOU! I feel like everyone just got super pissed at the ego thing they didn't even bother checking it out. I'll be the first to admit the new version sounds much nicer but its only the intro and verses that were altered, very similar notes to what I was playing but it goes way better. I suppose my question was more of would the original way I played it been passable? No audience really notices the bass, every show we did people loved us I guess I just wasnt hearing it right.
 
#84
Shimmi said:
... my guitarist who insists that many of my bass lines aren't going along with what he is playing... ...almost every new song we've been working on they have me play the EXACT same thing as the guitarist. Is this just what a bass player is suppose to do?

...is there a way to find out if my guitarist is just anal, is there a radius you can drift from what the guitarist is playing or is it really just playing what the guitarist is playing?
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Apparently you have not had much experience with music—which is no sin, BTW—but you must start listening and exploring. The bass, as an instrument, and as a musical voice (the line or bass role played by any low-pitched instrument) is as varied as any other musical voice.

Go listen and never stop. There is a world of musical art out there to school you. You can never exhaust what it has to teach.

Evaluating your bass lines is your job. You need to get better at it.
 
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#86
IMHO you need to be on the lookout for either controlling behaviour or mood swings. If he continues to tell you what to play one day and not another and it starts to bother you, then decide what to do about it.

One of the problems with asking questions like this is that there are people who always advise leave/fire and there are others who have no time for diva behaviour. I was in a band for 5 weeks and left because the guitarist was a dick. I dont have time for complainers, control freaks, idiots and chancers. I work with them I dont want them in my hobbies as well.
 
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#87
Some musicians have a narrow view on how the bass should be played.

I try to learn many styles, and techniques for bass playing and use what is needed for a particular song.

Also whenever a guitar player tries to micro-manage my bass playing it always ends badly.
 
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#89
Shimmi said:
Okay first off I am an amateur Bassist, that just means I love what I do although technically I'm "pro" if only by the most technical definition of getting compensated for shows.

Anyway recently Many of my bass lines I've been reworking in accordance with my guitarist who insists that many of my bass lines aren't going along with what he is playing. Which I understand I am a bit "fresh" so I've made some adjustments... however I noticed almost every new song we've been working on they have me play the EXACT same thing as the guitarist... Is this just what a bass player is suppose to do? Don't get me wrong makes my job easier but I figured you can play a whole variety of things that will go with the guitar.

Most recently which made me question my "mentor" is we cover Song 2 by the blur and he insists I change my bass... There is only bass in the chorus of that song, I looked up the tabs watched the video and played it exactly like the original but he says "I dont care they played it wrong" And is now having me follow him...which to my untrained ears just makes the song waaaay boring. Anyway is there a way to figure this out? I have an open mind and most of my bass lines have been sounding more "with it" after the "adjustments" but recently one of my favorite songs to play (one of the only ones where I actually play more than 2 strings lol) came under question and I really dont want to change the way I play it, he says I have to to go along with him and im like then you change what your playing he says he cant or hell have to rewrite the song which is basically what hes asking me to do... is there a way to find out if my guitarist is just anal, is there a radius you can drift from what the guitarist is playing or is it really just playing what the guitarist is playing?
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It depends on the song, but it often serves the song better if the bass part is independent from the guitar part. Sometimes doubling the guitar part is exactly what works. You have to use your imagination and ear to decide what's right. Hopefully you'll be able to work things out with your guitar player.
 
#94
since you're a Cover band .... it seems quite appropriate to play/learn the songs as they where done originally ... ! hence - Cover Band .... But ... in my Cover bands , .... we would find different versions of the original tunes ... radio version , Lp version , various Live versions ... and then meld them into Our version which Covered parts of all the original bands versions ... !! we did Not re-write things ... or let someone's ego dictate an arrangement .. !
 
#95
As cool and impressive as it is or may be that one can play it, whatever "it" may be, dead on note for note with all the vibe, feel, mojo, nuance or tone of the original artist cool good for "you". Personally, I want to your flair or flavor on it, "they" already did it. In that regard I agree with guitar guy. Unfortunately that is obviously not the core of this situation.
 
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#96
DavC said:
since you're a Cover band .... it seems quite appropriate to play/learn the songs as they where done originally ... ! hence - Cover Band .... But ... in my Cover bands , .... we would find different versions of the original tunes ... radio version , Lp version , various Live versions ... and then meld them into Our version which Covered parts of all the original bands versions ... !! we did Not re-write things ... or let someone's ego dictate an arrangement .. !
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Woah woah woah. No we are not a cover band, All originals we just happen to have 3 songs that are cover songs. We cover Danzigs "Mother" and we play it similar to the original but it's different. Song 2 though is a simple enough song theres no real need to change anything. Just had to make that clear. I'm going to try and pick up a peddle I'm hoping when I play it with distortion that may help it sound more like the original.
 
#97
Yes there have been many versions of this or that done, some of which were really incredible. Unfortunately probably 90% of all covers are not done that well IMO. Probably, I feel because "they" are trying to emulate the original too much. "I Will Survive", Gloria Ganer' version, awesome, however I prefer Cake' version for example. Example of flavor not trying to copy 100%. Check out Infectious Grooves - "Fame" or "Immigrant Song".
 
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#98
For comparison and contrast, if your curious. "Immigrant Song" versions - Infectious Grooves - Sarsippius' Ark (Limited Edition) vs. Dark Angel - Leave Scars. Obviously not from the stand point of trying to copy the original.
 
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#99
Shimmi said:
I suppose my question was more of would the original way I played it been passable? N
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Well your original example is now removed from the thread,
so discussion won't enlighten any others , but since you ask, here's my opinion:

The part of your bass line that was fighting the guitar was in those first three notes of each phrase.
specifically the third, If I remember correctly
you bass line landed and eight note or so behind the guitar's note
It kind of 'smears' the rhythm of the phrase
it would have been better to match those first 3 notes
And build a more coherent rhythm

Alternately have another instrument (drums probly)
double the bass rhythm so at least one of the two ideas presents as the 'main' rhtyhm,
leaving the guitar phrase to be a counterpoint
but with only 2 competing rhythms going on, there is a loss of rhythmic identity

Just like when 'Locking with the kick'
You don't need to mimic the whole guitar(drum) part
But you should match enough beats to present a coherent rhythmic idea.
 
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