Playing bass through a PPA or PA cabs

[bassballs27]

Well that's just wrong

Haha.....different strokes for different folks! haha
You're the Ampeg guy Jimmy. I already know that.

 

[bassballs27]

Take another look at the post you quoted!

Sounds like Bose is like Ford? Fix or repair daily?

Come on guys! Make recommendations!!!

I'm asking for PA cabs that can handle bass....aside from Fearful.

 

[40Hz]

1. I've only had direct experience with the Bose system. I think it's great for low volume folk,"acoustic," coffeehouse and singer-songwriter type music. But they're very expensive (IMO) for what they are; aren't the panacea they make them out to be; and don't have that great a bass response. I've heard some bands use Bose and it sounded really good. But it wouldn't work for me or the type of music I do.

You can do better assembling your own system and still pay a lot less AFAIC.

 

[40Hz]

Sounds like Bose is like Ford? Fix or repair daily?

Come on guys! Make recommendations!!!

I'm asking for PA cabs that can handle bass....aside from Fearful.

What's your budget? Not knowing that, I can tell you a BagEnd full range cab will do it. They're not powered. But a couple of Quilter power amps and some Bag End cabs will give you plenty of rock solid clear bass. Just have your checkbook ready.

However, a fearLESS or fearFUL cab is competitive with BagEnd and can be customized however you want. And there's plenty who prefer that Greenboy sound.

 

[timsmcm]

OK. I sort of keyed in on the primarily for basement thing.

Kind of Wonderin' why you keep referencing class D power as if it needs to be qualified?
Power is power regardless of the amp design.
As long as you refer to the same way to measure power between amps as in peak or RMS or whatever, and you measure that power under the same conditions, it's all the same.

Ohm's law, do not lie, no matter how you slice that PIE. P = I x E.

The load will draw X amount of current while the amp will supply X amount of voltage. Multiply the current times the voltage and you get power.

I hear people say that a lot about power but I have for many years been around high end home and car audio and I can tell you that all companies power descriptions are not the same. I have 30 watt amps that have more clean power than 100 watt amps and so on.

 

[bassballs27]

I hear people say that a lot about power but I have for many years been around high end home and car audio and I can tell you that all companies power descriptions are not the same. I have 30 watt amps that have more clean power than 100 watt amps and so on.

Agreed! A watt is a watt on paper...but experiencing those watts is another story.

 

[Old Garage-Bander]

I'm not disputing ohms law. I'm disputing perceived power. But that's not what this discussion is about.

Please stay on track please.

In my opinion, your "perceived power" is very much at the core of the discussion.
You qualified your amplifiers as being "class D power." In doing so I believe you've left open the possibility that one class of power amplification delivers more, or less, power to the speakers than another class, and does so only by virtue of the class of amplification in use. To do this is to disregarded Ohms law.

Perceived power is not a measurable quantity and has no place in making "Apple to Apple" power comparisons of amplifier power. Perceived power involves so many variables and can mean many different things to the person perceiving the effects of the power in use.

Perhaps you were thinking of the term Apparent Power and used perceived instead?
Apparent power is, and I almost mistakenly said, "real." Apparent Power is a factor in power measurement, but mostly where there are phase differences between voltage and current. It is not normally a part of the power discussion with audio amps because the wavelengths are so very long in comparison to the transmission distances involved.

You certainly may say that you like, or dislike class D amps. You might even discuss why in terms of harmonic content for instance. But harmonic differences are not power differences.
In my opinion, when you reference power in perceptual, unquantifiable terms, you add to misunderstanding of, what for some of us, is already a misunderstood subject.

When you use the term class D power as you did, others may infer attributes that don't necessarily apply.
I believe we have a responsibility to those who are here to learn, to keep fact and opinion separate.

In an instrument amplifier, voltage and current contributing to power stops at the speaker voice coil. The electric power is converted to mechanical power and then converted again to sound waves. What you perceive as sound is due to Sound Pressure Level. SPL is affected by other factors beside voltage and current that make power. When you perceive sound it is also very much a part of the environment where the sound occurs and your own physical and psychoacoustic profile.

I am curious to know if you like class D amplifiers better or worse than other classes.

 

[40Hz]

Agreed! A watt is a watt on paper...but experiencing those what's are another story.

A lot depends on the efficiency of the speakers and cabs and the range of frequencies reproduced as well as the amount and type of distortion.

You don't listen to electricity- so wattage measurements only tell part of the volume story.

 

[AztecViking]

Last time I saw Jimmy Johnson play bass with Holdsworth ( 2009? ) he used two 12" ElectroVoice PA speakers. They looked "old school" compared to what EV is now producing in that department. I now forget what he was driving them with but I do recall it wasn't any standard, garden variety bass head. He did sound great. For whatever that's worth.

 

[Ric5]

I saw a guy use this for bass and guitar ...

it is amazing clean and a flat response across the full spectrum of bass mids and treble

 

[catcauphonic]

Hey guys.
... However many people know me to have huge equipment. ...

Is that where your user name comes from?

 

[bassballs27]

Is that where your user name comes from?

I guess you haven't heard of EHX (Electro Harmonix) before?
The Bassballs has been a pedal that's been out for years....and guess what? I own one!

 

[bassballs27]

In my opinion, your "perceived power" is very much at the core of the discussion.
You qualified your amplifiers as being "class D power." In doing so I believe you've left open the possibility that one class of power amplification delivers more, or less, power to the speakers than another class, and does so only by virtue of the class of amplification in use. To do this is to disregarded Ohms law.

Perceived power is not a measurable quantity and has no place in making "Apple to Apple" power comparisons of amplifier power. Perceived power involves so many variables and can mean many different things to the person perceiving the effects of the power in use.

Perhaps you were thinking of the term Apparent Power and used perceived instead?
Apparent power is, and I almost mistakenly said, "real." Apparent Power is a factor in power measurement, but mostly where there are phase differences between voltage and current. It is not normally a part of the power discussion with audio amps because the wavelengths are so very long in comparison to the transmission distances involved.

You certainly may say that you like, or dislike class D amps. You might even discuss why in terms of harmonic content for instance. But harmonic differences are not power differences.
In my opinion, when you reference power in perceptual, unquantifiable terms, you add to misunderstanding of, what for some of us, is already a misunderstood subject.

When you use the term class D power as you did, others may infer attributes that don't necessarily apply.
I believe we have a responsibility to those who are here to learn, to keep fact and opinion separate.

In an instrument amplifier, voltage and current contributing to power stops at the speaker voice coil. The electric power is converted to mechanical power and then converted again to sound waves. What you perceive as sound is due to Sound Pressure Level. SPL is affected by other factors beside voltage and current that make power. When you perceive sound it is also very much a part of the environment where the sound occurs and your own physical and psychoacoustic profile.

I am curious to know if you like class D amplifiers better or worse than other classes.

Well let's start comparing brands of amps.
Take a T.C. RH750. 750W of Class D power.
And then lets take an Aguilar DB750...750W...a Mosfet driven Class A/B amplifier.
We might as add in an Ampeg SVT-CL 300W All tube

Now hook them all up to an 810E and then a Bergantino HD410 we'll A/B them.....and then we'll get a everyone from the talkbass to evaluate them, collect some data......and everyone will have a different opinion!

Let's move on from the theory and get to discuss why I started this thread.....

So, my current rig is a Yamaha PB-1 connected through a QSC PLX 3002. My speaker cabinet is a sole 4 ohm Bergantino HD410. It slams....it's efficient and it works.

What I'd like to do is buy a PA system that I can run my Roland V-Synth Keyboard, possibly mic my drum set, run a guitar through, and of course.....play bass through too.

My mixer is a PreSonus 16.0.1 and I have a spare QSC PLX 3602 floating around.

Now.....what PA cabinets would you recommend for me? or perhaps.....what PPA would you recommend for me?

 

[bassballs27]

I saw a guy use this for bass and guitar ...

it is amazing clean and a flat response across the full spectrum of bass mids and treble

There are apparently a bunch of musicians using these systems regularly. Many small ensembles from what I gather. Some groups use a bunch of them too.

 

[Old Garage-Bander]

Well let's start comparing brands of amps.
Take a T.C. RH750. 750W of Class D power.
And then lets take an Aguilar DB750...750W...a Mosfet driven Class A/B amplifier.
We might as add in an Ampeg SVT-CL 300W All tube

Now hook them all up to an 810E and then a Bergantino HD410 we'll A/B them.....and then we'll get a everyone from the talkbass to evaluate them, collect some data......and everyone will have a different opinion!

Exactly!

 

[bassballs27]

Exactly!

So maybe you agree with me that the TC RH750 isn't as loud as an Aguilar DB750?

Moving along......

Who else makes bass cabs that can double as PA cabs that are not fearful or fearless?
Bag End sounds like one of them. They've been around for a long time.

 

[catcauphonic]

I guess you haven't heard of EHX (Electro Harmonix) before?
The Bassballs has been a pedal that's been out for years....and guess what? I own one!

Lol, yes. Kidding. Ever heard of humor? (Not very good humor, apparently )

 

[pudgychef]

Maybe a couple QSC K series cabs?

 

[Ric5]

I build 8 bass cabs ... it turns out one of them makes a really good pa cabinet ...

The 1x15 with the horn top right is a really good pa cab

 

[1954bassman]

OP:
It seems your question is "which PA should I buy". I think that is your question, and such a question has hundreds of answers as there is a multitude of variables. My choice would be a QSC rig with the K series tops and subs. Or the EV EKX series tops and subs. If you want to use your QSC amp, then EV passive tops and powered subs.

One thing for sure, there is lots of great PA gear out there. Just avoid the temptation to buy cheap gear, you will just end up being disappointed.