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Playing "Cool" Songs versus Crowd Pleasers...Mutually Exclusive?

#23
51PRI said:
The band I'm in has gotten into a rut. At festivals and the like we're a blues band, playing the BL's originals, but in a bar we play anything and everything. The BL wants me to sing more. In most every band I've been in in the past I've sang a lot. Some nights in THIS band I don't sing lead all night long. But the BL wants me to learn some new songs that I can sing. However, they're not saying okay to any of the songs I'm selecting. There's either no response (to a text with a song) or "well, if we're going to do a song by ______why don't we do one of his hits? Then the BL will turn around and propose a totally unknown song because he likes it. Anything modernish at all and/or country gets crickets. I think we need to break out of our 1-4-5 12 bar comfort zone and learn some music that will challenge us, get us out of our comfort zone, and hopefully attract new folks to our gigs.

Thoughts?
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Sometimes you have to strategically pick songs that you know the other members will accept, based on your knowledge of what they like. Take stock of what they are fans of a try to triangulate a pick from there. I would say to stick with things that still sound bluesy/soulful but don't follow a 12 bar blues progression. You got to have something to break up those 12 bar tunes, so i am with you. A whole set of 12 bar blues sounds terrible.
 
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#25
Cool songs can be crowds pleasers for sure.
Lead singer has a solo repertoire that we are currently following and i didn't think that
7 nation army, this is how we do it, and everyday people were the right songs but he makes them work and they are working a storm with young crowds. Talking of which, this is getting young kids involved where you never see them at classic gigs.

We are a funky outfit and people are singing and dancing so far..
 
#26
LBS-bass said:
Your bandleader is being a doofus. If he wants you to sing more, he can start by adding some things you already know, and what would be the reason not to if they are already popular songs?
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I totally agree. If the BL wants a band member to sing lead, then the song(s) should be something that band member knows and sings well.
 
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#27
Slater said:
I totally agree. If the BL wants a band member to sing lead, then the song(s) should be something that band member knows and sings well.
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Yeah, like I said, at this point I'm just going that ask the BL and the other members to suggest songs for me to sing. Our season is about over so I don't that we will even rehearse again this year, anyway, so it might be a moot point.
QORC said:
if the crowd doesn't react to (or like) the song, it doesn't matter how "cool" you as a musician think it is
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Nev375 said:
Not every single song needs to be a crowd pleaser. It's good to throw in a band pleaser every once in a while (A deeper cut that you guys enjoy and absolutely crush)

Also, I get the impression your BL doesn't like you. I'd be lookin around for greener pastures.
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I agree that not every song needs to be a crowd pleaser, but MOST of them should be. I think the BL likes me, he just doesn't like my song choices. He's stuck in a rut. He's 10 years younger than me but he likes songs from before he was born, much older songs than I like.

pepj said:
Cool songs can be crowds pleasers for sure.
Lead singer has a solo repertoire that we are currently following and i didn't think that
7 nation army, this is how we do it, and everyday people were the right songs but he makes them work and they are working a storm with young crowds. Talking of which, this is getting young kids involved where you never see them at classic gigs.

We are a funky outfit and people are singing and dancing so far..
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That sounds cool.
 
#28
EdO. said:
FWIW and IMO to anyone familiar with and into the hair metal genre those two songs are classics. Well known enough to make it onto a playlist, not really unknown songs.
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To the Hair Metal enthusiast, yes. But to the random 45yr old soccer mom who is out for a party evening while the kids watch themselves for a few hours, neither of those songs are Pour Some Sugar, Here I Go Again, We're Not Gonna Take It, Nothing But A Good Time, Living On A Prayer. Not even close to that level of popularity.

There could easily be a lot of random people in any given audience, where Never Enough/Edge go over great but Monkey Business and Junkyard Dog (Both great songs by Skid Row / Winger) would hit the floor like a cement pancake.
 
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#29
There's honestly no reason to continually play the same beat-to-death cover material that every band has been doing since the beginning of time. Many classic artists have had charting singles that are recognizable but haven't been played 692,396,294,659,223,263,163,009 times over the course of history.

I love Lynyrd Skynrd, but every band is going to gravitate to Sweet Home Alabama and Gimme Three Steps. I'm not saying you need to find the deepest, hippest cut off of Gimme Back My Bullets, but Saturday Night Special, Call Me the Breeze, I Know a Little, Whiskey Rock-a-Roller, Double Trouble, and Working for MCA are all recognizable. When someone suggests some Poison, before your guitarist can crank out C, D, F#-slide-into-G, how about Unskinny Bop, Ride the Wind, or Look What the Cat Dragged In? Someone says you need some Romantics in the setlist? I know. I know. What I Like About You is easy since everyone's played it six gazillion times. Why not learn Talking In Your Sleep? And I know this is hard for some folks to believe, but Johnny Cash's recording career consists of more than Folsom Prison Blues. I know that's crazy! And Bob Seger...did you know that he recorded more tunes than Old Time Rock 'n Roll? And they are still played on the radio! And if someone wants to play some SRV, I got a challenge more epic than the ice bucket challenge or even the Tidepod challenge: Instead of playing Pride and Joy, play Couldn't Stand the Weather or Cold Shot. Not only will you win the challenge, but I bet people will still even recognize them. ;)
 
#30
LiquidMidnight said:
....... Why not learn Talking In Your Sleep?......... ;)
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"Talking in You Sleep" is a song that I did when it was new and it would be new, to us, in the band that I'm in. We actually learned it but never played it. The BL said it didn't fit into the format of what we're doing. It's not a I-IV-V 12 bar song. Maybe I'll try it again. Thanks!
 
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#34
Your BL seems like a bit of a tool.

This is such
LBS-bass said:
Your bandleader is being a doofus. If he wants you to sing more, he can start by adding some things you already know, and what would be the reason not to if they are already popular songs?

I'm also used to singing more and it's starting to make me a little stir crazy that nobody wants me to sing these days. One band I was in gave me a similar situation; asked me if there was something I wanted to sing and when I made a suggestion was then told that we don't need any more songs right now and they really needed me to be an anchor for the rhythm guitarist. This "anchor" thing has come out in more than one band; apparently if you can play deep in the pocket your role with some people is to drag along those who are challenged.

So my new rule moving forward is that if you can't give me any leads, don't expect me to sing a ton of harmonies. And I'm not joining any more bands that don't want me to do both.
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I agree that OP's BL seems like a bit of a tool.

This business is soo weird - I encounter the exact opposite situation. Everyone wants me to sing - I just want to lock down the groove. Doing both tends to water down both. And I don't have a very good voice - just a good ear and I know how to create harmonies. So I sing backing vocals on about 80% of songs I play. (But I never hear my voice in FOH mix on recordings.) I spend way more time working out vocal lines than I do bass lines. Maddening.

Both of my bands are trying to get me to take the reigns on a few leads. I'm trying to accommodate despite my desire not to, but I just don't have the range for most songs. And I just don't have a front man type presence. LBS has a lovely voice and they want to bury her in the shadows - go figure!

One of the bands - the one that really does need help with lead duties - doesn't like to change keys - which takes over half of my potential catalog out of play.

Back to OP's dilemma. It sounds like you're not in alignment with your BL's vision, which means the project may not be a good fit for you. The fact that you're seeking advice indicates that maybe it's time you did something about it.
 
#35
It aint rocket science - the more tunes you play that people know and like, the more work you'll get. Having said that, there are hundreds of songs out there that people know and like that few, if any bands are playing. Not every song has to be a blockbuster.

This is why I say over and over that you should know how new songs are decided on BEFORE joining a band. It has protected me from having to play someone's deep cut crap on more than one occasion.
 
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#37
First thing I'd go with is declare yourself BL. Sounds like he/she has trouble making decisions or taking suggestions so don't make it sound like a suggestion.
Second thing is any song by Gary Numan, Down in the Park if you need a recommendation. It's cool and people like it or if they don't like it they can pound sand because it's cool and that's that. No wiggle room here.

Seriously, look at this example, Traffic (whom I absolutely LOVE) played 25 minute versions of Freedom Rider and Low Spark and others, they'd put 4-5 songs in an 80 minute set. But nobody ever left. If they can play 2 chords beneath an organ solo for 15 minutes between verses surely you can find SOMETHING you can all agree on and still entertain the audience.

And yes, what is boring for the bass player is usually also boring for the rhythm guitarist. But you can make it less boring.

Start with your own coup.
 
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#39
51PRI said:
The rut is the 1-4-5 12 bar bluesy type songs, i.e. "Keep your Hands to Yourself" that can just be jammed on without actually learning parts.
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that's the rut, right there

a whole night of 100% 12 bar blues can be rut-free if everybody puts in the work to learn the parts and play them right

even "mustang sally" can be played with pride if the band actually makes the effort to nail the authentic wilson pickett arrangement, tone and feel.

conversely, if the band wants to turn "mustang sally" into some kind of reimagined exploratory space jam then that's cool too, as long as they put in the work to really create something new and interesting out of it

the point is to put in the work one way or the other. extended jamming over songs you sort of know doesn't count (unless you're all absolute wizards on your instruments, meaning you've already put in the work on your playing chops)
 
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