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Playing "Cool" Songs versus Crowd Pleasers...Mutually Exclusive?

51PRI

51PRI

Aug 7, 2014
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#1
The band I'm in has gotten into a rut. At festivals and the like we're a blues band, playing the BL's originals, but in a bar we play anything and everything. The BL wants me to sing more. In most every band I've been in in the past I've sang a lot. Some nights in THIS band I don't sing lead all night long. But the BL wants me to learn some new songs that I can sing. However, they're not saying okay to any of the songs I'm selecting. There's either no response (to a text with a song) or "well, if we're going to do a song by ______why don't we do one of his hits? Then the BL will turn around and propose a totally unknown song because he likes it. Anything modernish at all and/or country gets crickets. I think we need to break out of our 1-4-5 12 bar comfort zone and learn some music that will challenge us, get us out of our comfort zone, and hopefully attract new folks to our gigs.

Thoughts?
 
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#2
51PRI said:
...attract new folks to our gigs.
Click to expand...
How will any of these new folks know you're playing new music ?
You've got half a good idea, but the other half is that if you're going to change up your setlist, you need promotion.
How's your current crowd? Are you packing rooms? Have you raised your rates yet?

I think maybe this is less about song choice and more about your input being disregarded.
It is unsurprising the BL's choices get acted upon.
Are you a supporting player in 'his' band, or did you have the impression it's a project of equals?
The BL asked you to do something, and you said you didn't want to - although wanting you to do something and then rejecting all your suggestions is pretty passive-aggressive... And they've learned you don't feel strongly about your suggestions to insist...
You feel you 'need' to break out of a rut - but no one else feels this need. Why?

There's a lot of issues going on here.
They seem unlikely to embrace change they feel is unnecessary.
Might be time for another project, where you can be the BL and call the shots. Or at least one more closely aligned with your vision.
 
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#3
ArtechnikA said:
How will any of these new folks know you're playing new music ?
You've got half a good idea, but the other half is that if you're going to change up your setlist, you need promotion.
How's your current crowd? Are you packing rooms? Have you raised your rates yet?

I think maybe this is less about song choice and more about your input being disregarded.
It is unsurprising the BL's choices get acted upon.
Are you a supporting player in 'his' band, or did you have the impression it's a project of equals?
The BL asked you to do something, and you said you didn't want to - although wanting you to do something and then rejecting all your suggestions is pretty passive-aggressive... And they've learned you don't feel strongly about your suggestions to insist...
You feel you 'need' to break out of a rut - but no one else feels this need. Why?

There's a lot of issues going on here.
They seem unlikely to embrace change they feel is unnecessary.
Might be time for another project, where you can be the BL and call the shots. Or at least one more closely aligned with your vision.
Click to expand...
We're pretty successful, despite playing a lot of the BL's originals and other songs he likes that aren't very well known. A lot of our show is songs people don't and/or old covers. Nothing very new at all.

For the most part around here, except for the clicky hipster doofus downtown set who scoff at "playing covers", most bands here are successful playing songs that people know and can party and dance to. My goal would be for us to add newer songs that would help accomplish that, and maybe also broaden our fan base. We've been fairly successful, but I think we can do better.

My other project starts back up next week after an 18 month Covid shutdown. It's a mostly all original band that has been mainly for us a creative outlet. Although, the other guitarist and I have talked about learning covers and trying to book more gigs, so we'll see.
 
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#4
Your bandleader is being a doofus. If he wants you to sing more, he can start by adding some things you already know, and what would be the reason not to if they are already popular songs?

I'm also used to singing more and it's starting to make me a little stir crazy that nobody wants me to sing these days. One band I was in gave me a similar situation; asked me if there was something I wanted to sing and when I made a suggestion was then told that we don't need any more songs right now and they really needed me to be an anchor for the rhythm guitarist. This "anchor" thing has come out in more than one band; apparently if you can play deep in the pocket your role with some people is to drag along those who are challenged.

So my new rule moving forward is that if you can't give me any leads, don't expect me to sing a ton of harmonies. And I'm not joining any more bands that don't want me to do both.
 
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#6
LBS-bass said:
...I'm also used to singing more and it's starting to make me a little stir crazy that nobody wants me to sing these days. One band I was in gave me a similar situation; asked me if there was something I wanted to sing and when I made a suggestion was then told that we don't need any more songs right now...
Click to expand...
Man, I hear you. At this point with my band the next time they ask me what I want to learn I'm going to tell them "what songs do YOU want me to learn?" I've made many suggestions that have been shot down, either by the BL directly, or by the other guitarist in the band by not saying anything. In other words I might text the guys a song and the BL would say "yeah, I like that one" and nobody else says anything. And I think it could be just not wanting to spend the time to learn a song that is outside the comfort zone and actually requires work to learn it.
buldog5151bass said:
To me, the issue isn't "breaking out of a rut". You are there to entertain the audience, not yourself. Without knowing the exact tunes/artists in question, it's hard to give more specific thoughts.
Click to expand...
The rut is the 1-4-5 12 bar bluesy type songs, i.e. "Keep your Hands to Yourself" that can just be jammed on without actually learning parts. Four or five 12 bar blues type songs in A gets boring for a bass player. I would think it would get boring for a guitarist, too. It would for me if I was playing guitar instead of bass.
 
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#7
51PRI said:
...Four or five 12 bar blues type songs in A gets boring for a bass player.
Click to expand...
Oteil Burbridge had a good observation on that, talking about his time in the Allman Brothers which frequently involved extended jams through the blues form.
"It's your job to make it interesting. You're stuck with the changes, but it's up to you to introduce rhythmic variations. Don't play the 1, then skip the 2, then the 3, then the 4. Emphasize the 1 and the 2, then the 1 and the 3, then the 1 and the 4." IOW - move to the percussion side of the bridge for a while. Play your rhythms melodically, like drummers do.
 
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#8
ArtechnikA said:
Oteil Burbridge had a good observation on that, talking about his time in the Allman Brothers which frequently involved extended jams through the blues form.
"It's your job to make it interesting. You're stuck with the changes, but it's up to you to introduce rhythmic variations. Don't play the 1, then skip the 2, then the 3, then the 4. Emphasize the 1 and the 2, then the 1 and the 3, then the 1 and the 4." IOW - move to the percussion side of the bridge for a while. Play your rhythms melodically, like drummers do.
Click to expand...
Good advice. I like to change things up depending on what's happening. Sometimes it's dynamics, like playing more quiet and maybe more clipped under the vocals, then bringing things up a little and changing up rhythmically during a solo or chorus.

I listen to drummers a lot and you'll notice they'll go back and forth from cymbals to hat, depending on what part of the song they're in. The good ones do, anyway. They'll also change hat patterns and kick/snare patterns a bit. It keeps the song interesting and feeds into the way the song builds. We have some tools for that, too. We don't have to play the same thing over and over.
 
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#12
Spidey2112 said:
If you do a song justice, the cool ones become crowd pleasers.
Click to expand...
I really wish that was true.
40Hz said:
Some of the coolest songs ever written also happen to be major crowd pleasers....
Click to expand...
Can you give me a list of a few. I'm really needing to come up with some songs. Has to be able to be covered with two guitars, bass and drums lineup.
 
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#13
LBS-bass said:
they really needed me to be an anchor for the rhythm guitarist. This "anchor" thing has come out in more than one band; apparently if you can play deep in the pocket your role with some people is to drag along those who are challenged.
Click to expand...

I can sympathize. I quit what was arguably one of the best originals bands I was ever in because one of the guitarists loved to do overlong solos for his own songs and, right before he launched into one, he’d turn to me and say: “Gimme a LOT of bass.”

I got tired of laying down a ton of low end sludge so he could freestyle skate around on it for five solid minutes at a clip. But when I used to object to it at band meetings I got nowhere because he and the BL had this lifelong musical Lennon/McCartney type bromance going.

The only way up and out of that quagmire for me was out.
 
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#17
So many things here....

#1 We all have to do things we don't want. That's called compromise. Here is a cool management tool for coming up with such a list of what new songs you will do: It is called Multi-voting

- Have each member submit 5 potentially new songs - anonymously
- Now you have a list of 15 songs, and you don't know who suggested them (mix them up)
- Give each member three votes that they get to use to put an X beside the top three songs they want to try
- The song that has the most votes gets done. If there is no winner - eliminate songs with no vote, and repeat until you have a top 3.
* Make sure the band leader votes last. You are ONLY adding three! One vote per song.

#2 Song in any genre = FAIL. Don't do that. Always try to stay one degree or freedom from the core. examples:

Metal band playing standard 80's metal: Scorpions, Maiden, Priest, Dio, Ozzy, etc....Could go as light as poison for a few, or up to Metallica/Megadeth for a few. CAN'T play Bryan Adams, or Cannibal Corpse.

Classic rock Band playing 70's classics: Zepp, Who, Stones, CCR, ZZ Top, Aerosmith, etc...Could go Southern with a little Skynyrd, Molly Hatchet, Allmans, or Blues rock w/ SRV, Clapton (Crossroads era) etc. CAN'T play Poison or Metallica. Shouldn't play anything by the drifters, or and R&B band.

Blues Rock band: Can play Blues, R&B or Blues Rockers. You get the idea.
- If you want dancing, choose the beat carefully!

#3 Here is a suggestion: Bluesify more popular songs. The way VH metal-ed up You really got me. I do a 12st Bluesed-out version of Zepp's Rock & Roll. I do an acoustic version of Shoot to Thrill by AC/DC. Put a Lady Gaga song into 12 bar format. Or something by whoever....just something everyone knows.
- The song is already known/loved
- Make it yours in your style.

A key thing to playing "cool" songs has nothing to do with music. The listeners want something "catchy" it needs to feel familiar and singable the first time you play it.

example: In our 80's hair tribute we play a song called Never Enough by LA guns. Not their big hit (Ballad of Jayne). But - the thing is...the song has a great hook, is definitively 80's hair band music, and easy going and familiar the first time you hear it. Always goes over well. Same with edge of a Broken Heart by Vixen. Not an "A" list band....but the song is obviously 80's hair music, and immediately sing - along worthy on the first chorus.
 
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#19
Aceman said:
example: In our 80's hair tribute we play a song called Never Enough by LA guns. Not their big hit (Ballad of Jayne). But - the thing is...the song has a great hook, is definitively 80's hair band music, and easy going and familiar the first time you hear it. Always goes over well. Same with edge of a Broken Heart by Vixen. Not an "A" list band....but the song is obviously 80's hair music, and immediately sing - along worthy on the first chorus.
Click to expand...
FWIW and IMO to anyone familiar with and into the hair metal genre those two songs are classics. Well known enough to make it onto a playlist, not really unknown songs.
Aceman said:
key thing to playing "cool" songs has nothing to do with music. The listeners want something "catchy" it needs to feel familiar and singable the first time you play it.
Click to expand...
I'd more say it NEEDS to be catchy and familiar. Those two fit the criteria. FWIW.
 
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#20
I like to do the songs that are awesome by any given band that everyone knows but weren’t necessarily the biggest single. Every band has them. Or as suggested take a well known tune and make it your own. We do a cover
Of
Madonna material girl. But it’s our own version. Same with lady gaga poker face and I think we’re alone now. Also the safety dance we
Do our own variation on. People love it. Try it!
 
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