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Playing during bass solos
- Thread starter jhatpro7
- Start date
I learned somewhere that to provide maximum entertainment potential, musical performances need to include "events." Events are things that punctuate the music, break the pattern, draw attention, etc. One or two of these per hour set is about right.
An example of a set event could be bringing 2 or 3 people up on stage to dance with the band. Or, a common one is the old "break it down" trick where you cut everything out but the rhythm section and then build back up to a climax with audience participation along the way. Think about the middle section of the Isley Brothers "Shout" and what bands usually do with that.
If you aren't in a band where the bass player is the bandleader or where bass solos are a natural part of the music (like a jazz combo), a bass solo makes a good musical event too. But you have to do it right.
If nothing changes in the music except the bass player takes a solo instead of playing the bassline, it's going to suck because two bad things happen at the same time:
So it actually makes musical sense in most cases to start a bass solo by removing all other instruments except the drums. This announces to the audience that something special is about to happen. Maybe the keyboards or some very light guitar comping remain, depending on how well the rest of the band can follow the form without the bass part, and on how "out there" the bass solo is.
Certain types of bass solos follow the roots pretty closely and untrained ears can still follow the form hearing just the bass solo. Other bass players solo just like Trane and unless their keyboardist is Chick Corea, he's probably going to lose the form and then everyone will be screwed, including the audience. All the members of your band have to be able to work with you productively and cooperatively during your solo for it to be effective.
Then, if the bass player is a good soloist, he or she can construct a solo that builds tension and approaches a climax all on its own, with no real help from the band. That's super awesome to watch, but you don't see it often unless you paid for a ticket that has the bass player's name on it. In any other case, it helps for the band to gradually layer in more voices and chordal activity so that they can help the bass player approach the climax of the solo and for everyone to be able to follow along - to the point where at the very end of the solo you've gone from nearly no accompanying activity to everyone playing behind the bass player, and playing loudly. You just have to get there the right way.
In these ways you can make your bass solo into a musical "event" that helps give structure to your set and keeps your audience involved.
This makes me want to play a gig.
An example of a set event could be bringing 2 or 3 people up on stage to dance with the band. Or, a common one is the old "break it down" trick where you cut everything out but the rhythm section and then build back up to a climax with audience participation along the way. Think about the middle section of the Isley Brothers "Shout" and what bands usually do with that.
If you aren't in a band where the bass player is the bandleader or where bass solos are a natural part of the music (like a jazz combo), a bass solo makes a good musical event too. But you have to do it right.
If nothing changes in the music except the bass player takes a solo instead of playing the bassline, it's going to suck because two bad things happen at the same time:
- The bottom falls out of the music
- A guy tries to take a solo and nobody can hear him because the solo register of his instrument (the bass) competes unfavorably with too much else that's going on.
So it actually makes musical sense in most cases to start a bass solo by removing all other instruments except the drums. This announces to the audience that something special is about to happen. Maybe the keyboards or some very light guitar comping remain, depending on how well the rest of the band can follow the form without the bass part, and on how "out there" the bass solo is.
Certain types of bass solos follow the roots pretty closely and untrained ears can still follow the form hearing just the bass solo. Other bass players solo just like Trane and unless their keyboardist is Chick Corea, he's probably going to lose the form and then everyone will be screwed, including the audience. All the members of your band have to be able to work with you productively and cooperatively during your solo for it to be effective.
Then, if the bass player is a good soloist, he or she can construct a solo that builds tension and approaches a climax all on its own, with no real help from the band. That's super awesome to watch, but you don't see it often unless you paid for a ticket that has the bass player's name on it. In any other case, it helps for the band to gradually layer in more voices and chordal activity so that they can help the bass player approach the climax of the solo and for everyone to be able to follow along - to the point where at the very end of the solo you've gone from nearly no accompanying activity to everyone playing behind the bass player, and playing loudly. You just have to get there the right way.
In these ways you can make your bass solo into a musical "event" that helps give structure to your set and keeps your audience involved.
This makes me want to play a gig.
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What a cool thing to do as a horn player, to ask this here. Great question.
I haven't read through the whole thing, so maybe I'm just parroting others. If the bass player is primarily playing the changes in the song (except for his/her solo) then do that to keep the song cohesive when the big ol' bottom end falls out. Or, More subtly, play some leading notes into a change, so it's not a "Yep. Here's the G. Right on 1" to create a bit of interest. Figure out what the bass's role is in the tune, and contribute to that (even a little) when he's soloing. We've all heard the rowdy recordings where someone's just tearing up a solo and the other musicians (and/or audience) are calling out, or cheering a bit, or just having some fun and whooping it up. I dig that. Or a play an unannounced lick perfectly timed in a solo as a bit of a smartassy (and brief) response. Something that makes everyone on and off stage smile or say "aww yeah". YMMV.
I wouldn't recommend that if Miles or James Brown was soloing though.
I haven't read through the whole thing, so maybe I'm just parroting others. If the bass player is primarily playing the changes in the song (except for his/her solo) then do that to keep the song cohesive when the big ol' bottom end falls out. Or, More subtly, play some leading notes into a change, so it's not a "Yep. Here's the G. Right on 1" to create a bit of interest. Figure out what the bass's role is in the tune, and contribute to that (even a little) when he's soloing. We've all heard the rowdy recordings where someone's just tearing up a solo and the other musicians (and/or audience) are calling out, or cheering a bit, or just having some fun and whooping it up. I dig that. Or a play an unannounced lick perfectly timed in a solo as a bit of a smartassy (and brief) response. Something that makes everyone on and off stage smile or say "aww yeah". YMMV.
I wouldn't recommend that if Miles or James Brown was soloing though.
If the bassist has a boost or better yet some pedals to change his sound instantly, then they will have a lot more flexibility on what they can or can't do in solos. Even an upright can sound really cool with chorus.
change in technique could facilitate as well like using bow, pick, slapping, going to bridge tone... etc.
some chord comping in the background is good from the band mates.
If any silence, then hopefully on a part where there is room for a cool run briefly.
change in technique could facilitate as well like using bow, pick, slapping, going to bridge tone... etc.
some chord comping in the background is good from the band mates.
If any silence, then hopefully on a part where there is room for a cool run briefly.
"I learned somewhere that to provide maximum entertainment potential, musical performances need to include "events." Events are things that punctuate the music, break the pattern, draw attention, etc. One or two of these per hour set is about right."
Golden advice! It is a show, after all...
Golden advice! It is a show, after all...
The other instruments players really should be listening and putting all their focus and attention to complimenting and supporting the bass solo. Most pianists and guitarists are not developed enough in their musicianship to do this well. It takes focus, practice and open ears.
Drums: volume does come down and listen...
Piano or guitar: listen and play chord shells that define the song's harmony and form in the middle or higher register. Sparse. Listen. Compliment, don't cover.
Guitar has the option to "Freddie Green" the accompaniment chords at low volume if stylistic.
Generally, melodic counterpoint = no,
chord harmony = yes.
Bad thing: walking "bass lines" on piano.
Even worse, walking "bass" on guitar. Yuck.
Drums: volume does come down and listen...
Piano or guitar: listen and play chord shells that define the song's harmony and form in the middle or higher register. Sparse. Listen. Compliment, don't cover.
Guitar has the option to "Freddie Green" the accompaniment chords at low volume if stylistic.
Generally, melodic counterpoint = no,
chord harmony = yes.
Bad thing: walking "bass lines" on piano.
Even worse, walking "bass" on guitar. Yuck.
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A good technique for a bass solo in a country style tune where you're normally just doing the 2 step shuffle is to switch to a 4 to the bar walking line and just make the changes. Simple but effective.
When I solo I try to stop opening with the root, to try and be more melodic. If no one else is playing the root, it makes it harder for me to play harmonic ideas out.
Then the next problem, when it actually does go really well, people get excited and then they're drowning me out by the end of the solo.
Then the next problem, when it actually does go really well, people get excited and then they're drowning me out by the end of the solo.
So I suppose that if the tune is "In the Mood" you do a bass solo?
I expect the same courtesy and support from my band mates when I solo, simple. I work my ass off all nite to make every song, groove, solo kick - on the brief moments I have to shine is it too much of a challenge to figure out something to make me sound good?
Don't know what to do? Well you do your homework, listen to the greats, listen to records, find examples in your style of music and others that you can incorporate. You will learn that there are several traditional approaches that every player should master not just rhythm. Ask your bassist or drummer what they want. Maybe even practice giving the bass and drums a solo just like professional players do.
Don't know what to do? Well you do your homework, listen to the greats, listen to records, find examples in your style of music and others that you can incorporate. You will learn that there are several traditional approaches that every player should master not just rhythm. Ask your bassist or drummer what they want. Maybe even practice giving the bass and drums a solo just like professional players do.
Do:
- Tastefully state the harmony and the form
- Keep it steady - count for yourself
- Quiet the **** down
- Erect a wall of sound (w/ dense chord voicing, busy rhythms and ham-fisted dynamics) that I have to try to chisel through with my softer instrument
- Follow me out on a limb / parrot what I am playing
- Lose the "one" and oblige me to switch back to "rescue" mode every time I syncopate
I play jazz in trio format, often without drums. I like accompanists to keep an ear out for the register I'm in, and avoid playing in that register. Chords are best if sparse and in wide voicings -- just two or three notes -- and if I'm in the lower register, the chords should be voiced in the higher register. Percussionists, too, can help by avoiding playing lots of open cymbals that wash out the upper partials of the bass. It's hard to cut through on the bass without being too loud, so accompaniment should usually be very quiet. I also will sometimes play chords and harmonized passages and it's helpful if there is no piano or guitar at all during those.
Of course, sometimes no accompaniment is needed besides the sounds of conversation and 60-cycle hum!
In a trad jazz context, l'd hear the drummer going to a "shhhchch shhhchch" kind of pattern, and perhaps organizing the horns to hit on the first beat of each measure, or each turn-around. But most importantly, what does the bassman sayeth?
Basically, you'd pay the bassist the same respect you'd pay any instrument: you stay out of their way while supporting the changes. So, I'd say laying back could be applicable. What laying back means can vary from situation to situation though. In acoustic setups, that could include playing quieter. In the skate punk/metal thing I do, oh, I'll be heard. Hahaha
I will take either, drums only, NOBODY else, or whole group doing the changes.
It's nice to solo with the chord changes still going on like a guitarist...a much more musical experience if you're an experienced soloist.
Playing with just the drummer can lay the expectation that you're still playing over the changes in your head, which is mighty tough to do when you can't hear them and are just imagining the changes as you go, specially if the drummer gets creative with time making you focus on time rather than the current chord. So for solos when nobody else is playing changes, I try NOT to play the changes unless I know the song really well and won't get confused while I'm being creative and trying to impress.
Playing entirely alone is a blast if you're prepared for it, specially if you have a looper pedal kicking around. I did a solo like that with a big band when I was only 16 years old (I'm 51 now) in a music festival, brief looping of a riff where it seemed fitting... was a blast.... then the rhythm section broke into an intense, brief, blues jam that I led them into. Then the band came back with a very fast whole band bebop type line... it truly was a fun show.
So whatever works.
Just don't play OVER me during a solo. This is MY solo. We can trade off, 2s, 4s, 1s, wahtever, but don't start stealing the show. If you don't during my solo, then I won't during your solo! hahaha (That's directed at other musicians in general, although mostly guitarists and keyboardists).
And hey OP, thanks for asking here! Great idea to go to the source
Cheers!
It's nice to solo with the chord changes still going on like a guitarist...a much more musical experience if you're an experienced soloist.
Playing with just the drummer can lay the expectation that you're still playing over the changes in your head, which is mighty tough to do when you can't hear them and are just imagining the changes as you go, specially if the drummer gets creative with time making you focus on time rather than the current chord. So for solos when nobody else is playing changes, I try NOT to play the changes unless I know the song really well and won't get confused while I'm being creative and trying to impress.
Playing entirely alone is a blast if you're prepared for it, specially if you have a looper pedal kicking around. I did a solo like that with a big band when I was only 16 years old (I'm 51 now) in a music festival, brief looping of a riff where it seemed fitting... was a blast.... then the rhythm section broke into an intense, brief, blues jam that I led them into. Then the band came back with a very fast whole band bebop type line... it truly was a fun show.
So whatever works.
Just don't play OVER me during a solo. This is MY solo. We can trade off, 2s, 4s, 1s, wahtever, but don't start stealing the show. If you don't during my solo, then I won't during your solo! hahaha (That's directed at other musicians in general, although mostly guitarists and keyboardists).
And hey OP, thanks for asking here! Great idea to go to the source
Cheers!
