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Double Bass Playing on a Double Bass in Hard Rock/Metal

R

Ras El Ghol

Jun 4, 2011
8
0
#1
Didn't know where to post this, hopefully this is the correct forum.

I grew up listening to rock/metal and naturally the first instrument I decided to approach was the guitar.

Recently, I've decided to switch over to the low end, and because I'm starting to listen to much more Jazz, I have developed a liking for the Upright Bass over the Bass Guitar due to it's tone, versatility and ability to bow it.

So my question is how would a double bass hold up in a hard rock/metal band? I feel it wouldn't be audible. Does anybody have any experiences playing them in such genres. I might play on a EUB so let me know about your experiences with both acoustic and electric.

Thank you in advance.
 
#4
Joe Lester from the post metal band Intronaut has used DB on a few songs (he generally plays 5 string fretless electric), but only during some very chilled out sections of their music. The heavy stuff always gets the electric.

I remember a South American prog metal act who used an EUB, but can't remember anything more for the life of me.

I play metal on electric and do a bit of dabbling in the DB world, mostly on simply dixieland jazz type stuff, or occasionally backing a singer/songwriter.

The issue with the DB is it produces much more fundamental and has less sustain than BG, both of which hurt you when dealing with heavily distorted guitars.

I think a shorter scale EUB with with BG type strings and some EQ futzing COULD work. But depending on the type of metal you want to play, stamina and difficulty of passages could be an issue.

The majority of times DB is used in heavier music would be rockabilly/psychobilly, and these instruments are heavily amplified and generally sound more like a BG than a traditional DB.

Not a heavy band, but a rock band who successfully used DB on many songs was Barenaked Ladies. But even they used BG on many of their harder rockin tunes.
 
#6
I think as long as you can keep the DB from feeding back like a monster at high volumes, all you would need is an Ampeg stack and a Bass ODB-3 and you'd be in business :). I think an EUB might suit your situation better, but I've always been partial to the look of a DB, and find an EUB harder to bow so I'd PERSONALLY try a DB first. of course, being a classical DB player and a Jack Casady EB player, you can see I'm a bit acoustically and visually biased.

There should be all sorts of info in the Rockabilly/Psychobilly area, as well as the amplification section of this forum on quelling the perils of DB feedback. I'm by no means an expert, so I won't try to advise you. Another thing you may consider is that a lot of metal bands use alternate tunings, so make sure to buy strings and get set up accordingly. DB strings (and DB's) are not particularly happy whenever they have to change tuning, and need some time to set, and you need to make sure you have the proper gauge for your tunings.

Good luck! have fun.

eerbrev
 
#7
YouTube - ‪Intronaut - Valley of Smoke‬‏

Since more people need to hear Intronaut.

For those adverse to metal, this is an instrumental song, though the band does include both screamed and sung vocals on most tracks.

There is actually 3 bass tracks on this tune, fretless 5 string and DB by Joe Lester and some rad fretted electric by a fellow some people might have heard of, Justin Chancellor of Tool.

DB starts at about 7:20, but do yourself a favor and listen to the whole thing :)
 
#9
Thank you for all the responses,

I really appreciate all of your help and I will definitely check out all the recommendations.

I have a another question though, I listen to (and would want to play) more technical metal and prog bands such as Protest the Hero, Dream Theater, and Cynic. All these bands use Bass guitars, so my question is are technical passages easier to play on Bass guitar over Double bass? Would I even be able to learn songs by these bands on the double bass?

Anyways thank you again for all the responses.
 
#11
I don't play DB, but I can only see it beeing harder, the lack of frets is by itself enough to make it harder. I wouldn't worry about it, if you are going to create your own songs, you will just have to keep your lines to the level of your technical ability.

IMO the only problem will be to find a way to avoid the feedback with all this volume and distortion going on.
 
#12
I think I'll be starting on an EUB anyway for the portability since I live in Egypt and I'll have to get a friend to buy me the bass from abroad when they travel because the shipping is insane. Maybe I'll move to the acoustic as I improve and get more opportunities to buy one myself from abroad. Hence if I do play on the EUB, I won't have to worry that much about feedback.

To clarify my question, compare a fretless bass guitar to an EUB. Both need work with intonation, however the upright bass will be in a different (more awkward) position for me as a previous guitarist. So when it comes to playing an extremely fast and difficult passage, which would have the advantage?
 
#13
Ras El Ghol said:
Thank you for all the responses,

I really appreciate all of your help and I will definitely check out all the recommendations.

I have a another question though, I listen to (and would want to play) more technical metal and prog bands such as Protest the Hero, Dream Theater, and Cynic. All these bands use Bass guitars, so my question is are technical passages easier to play on Bass guitar over Double bass? Would I even be able to learn songs by these bands on the double bass?

Anyways thank you again for all the responses.
Click to expand...

If your ultimate goal is to play this very technical style, I think your best bet is to play BG. You could play on a lined fretless to start if you like the fretless sound (Cynic uses lots of fretless, and DT has used some).

I think even the virtuosos on the DB would find playing the speedy arpeggios of bands like Protest and DT VERY challenging, if not impossible. The reach between notes is a good bit larger on DB, especially in the lower register. And the higher register brings it's own challenge of thumb position.

I think that using an EUB for some bowed parts or a very certain sound could add a lot to a prog band, but I think it's unreasonable to think that you could play DB/EUB 100% of the time, assuming you will be as technical as the bands you mentioned.
 
#14
Ras El Ghol said:
I think I'll be starting on an EUB anyway for the portability since I live in Egypt and I'll have to get a friend to buy me the bass from abroad when they travel because the shipping is insane. Maybe I'll move to the acoustic as I improve and get more opportunities to buy one myself from abroad. Hence if I do play on the EUB, I won't have to worry that much about feedback.

To clarify my question, compare a fretless bass guitar to an EUB. Both need work with intonation, however the upright bass will be in a different (more awkward) position for me as a previous guitarist. So when it comes to playing an extremely fast and difficult passage, which would have the advantage?
Click to expand...

Depending on scale length, an EUB can be the same as a fretless BG or require a greater reach, like a acoustic DB.

The other thing would be as a beginner, a lined fretless BG wouldn't seem all that strange, but a lined EUB definitely is less common.

I think in general, it is safe to say that the BG is more suited to EXTREMELY fast playing. Obviously, the greats on the DB can play very fast, but I think it's still a pretty significant difference.
 
#15
BKBassDude said:
Depending on scale length, an EUB can be the same as a fretless BG or require a greater reach, like a acoustic DB.

The other thing would be as a beginner, a lined fretless BG wouldn't seem all that strange, but a lined EUB definitely is less common.

I think in general, it is safe to say that the BG is more suited to EXTREMELY fast playing. Obviously, the greats on the DB can play very fast, but I think it's still a pretty significant difference.
Click to expand...

The NS Design EUBs (which I'll probably buy) are dotted at where the frets should be so I won't have a problem with that really.


Luckily for me, I have the opportunity to learn with a really good double bassist (He's the 1st Contrabassist in the Cairo Symphony Orchestra) and because I know him through a mutual friend, he is very eager to teach me and will offer me a lot of information at a minimal payment (He wanted to do it for free, but I insist on paying him). So if I go with the path of the double bass, I have a good teacher to aid me.

On the other hand, I can't find any guitar bassists here who are available to teach me, and I will probably end up learning from youtube or books.

So these are the differences, I think I will go with the EUB for the versatility, option to bow, the uniqueness of the instrument in my preferred genre and the availability of a teacher.

Many thanks for the advice,

Sorry I accidentally steered the thread away from the initial topic. So to return to the main topic, I have read somewhere that Tony Levin (bassist of King Crimson) has used upright before. Does any one know of songs where he uses an upright, I'd very interested in them.
 
#16
BKBassDude said:
YouTube - ‪Intronaut - Valley of Smoke‬‏

Since more people need to hear Intronaut.
Click to expand...

Nice. Thanks.

I've played a lot of very loud noise and free improv on acoustic DB, some of it definitely at metal-show volume, so I figure it can be done. I used to use a Bass Max pickup for that stuff: not a hi-fi pickup, but a very hot signal, good definition, and very feedback-resistant. When I used a Realist at high volume, the entire body of the bass would start feeding back.

In my experience, once you amplify the DB to crazy volume, all the 'acoustic' qualities of feel and dynamic response are gone - you're just playing the strings, pickup, and amp. EUB would be a practical solution, but I've personally never played one that I really liked. Lately, if I know it's going to be face-melting loud, I just play electric.

Check out the Nels Cline Singers on Youtube - you'll see Devin Hoff playing double bass, EUB, and electric in various clips. I saw him play a loaner plywood bass through an SVT in Vancouver a few years ago, and they killed.

Also, The Ex had a double bass player for a while in the mid-00s - you can see her playing with them in Jem Cohen's concert film, "Building a Broken Mousetrap." One of my favourite punk bands ever fwiw:

YouTube - ‪The Ex - "3:45am"‬‏
 
#17
In this topic, people usually focus on loudness and amplification: if you just use the right gear you can make it happen. Sure, why not? But there's another physical aspect of the DB that makes it unlikely to saddle up with your average metal or punk posse: that's the "attack-decay-sustain" profile of a plucked-DB note (I assume we're not talking arco here.) There is nothing like the immediate response you get out of a metal-worthy EBG rig. In comparison, the DB response has a time profile, it's stretched out, it has bloom and decay to it. People should try whatever they want, but to me it seems like a bit of a "square peg, round hole" situation. There are better tools than the DB for loud, fast, aggressive music.
 
#20
Ras El Ghol said:
To clarify my question, compare a fretless bass guitar to an EUB. Both need work with intonation, however the upright bass will be in a different (more awkward) position for me as a previous guitarist. So when it comes to playing an extremely fast and difficult passage, which would have the advantage?
Click to expand...

The double bass has such a long tradition it is way easier - in a sense - meaning there are clear methods. Get a bow and a basic classical method book like Simandl - you'll need classical chops to get the precision required for metal anyway.
 

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