Playing out of key / phrasing

[KevInDaBassment]

I don't know if you talk about the one where he only plays the wrong notes over a chord. Very interesting because you then enter into the world of meaning what you play and how you play it. Even if it is all wrong it can right !!

Yeah, I believe that's the one

 

[Drucifer]

Intentional use of this can be really effective and dramatic during a solo, if done right it can be pretty captivating - I think because there's so much tension and then resolve when you come back. I have a few examples off the top of my head below, there are tons of these we could talk about, maybe post some cool ones? Over the years I've incorporated my version of this into my playing, but don't tend to get it right all the time. What I do is basically play a motif in key, then repeat that a half step sharp or flat, then resolve back to being in key, but it's not always easy to have it come out as a single, solid phrase. If my timing isn't quite right it can just sound bad and unintentional, more like a mistake than anything else. Can someone who is well versed in this type of playing help me with some methodology I can work on, and maybe a few tricks that can help me make things sound more polished?

Herbie does a ton of it here, but the Scofield solo is amazing (I set time to start of guitar solo):


A guy I don't know (Dario Chiazzolino) playing with Greg Spero, just found this recently:

I hear a lot of this in Alan Holdsworth's soloing as well.

 

[BassBrass]

CTI is what got me into Brazilian/bossa styles in my early 20's. You hit it right on the nose. That later Hubbard crossover stuff was dope. I could go on and on.

CheersView attachment 5344740

This

 

[Pyrrho Epoche]

Yes and....

This

Ray Baretto La Cuna:
https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PL4ZzkYoSkq7zXHrpKPGcuepi7iaSPcM3A&si=QaDj9fIRGqfbr8pr







Not CTI, but this gets into some real funky Brazil Jazz, if you can get past the marching band style intro:

 

[mambo4]

Yeah, I believe that's the one

I think this is not exactly the "Groove Workshop" clip referenced (where victor deliberately solos using only out of key tones) but it's on topic


Those "Groove Workshop" clips are owned by You Tube blockers,
so they vanish often and are hard to hunt down.

 

[Groove Master]

Yeah, I believe that's the one

Very good lesson there. Beyond the notes there is others factors that make something musical.

If I remember correctly the harmony or the chord is based on all the whites keys of the piano and he plays only with the black keys in his solo.

Very interesting