philvanv
Gerbil Turds, Kitsap County Turd Core
- Jul 2, 2012
- 530
- 17
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- and at the bottom it says thank you, and now you can shag off
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playing with a metronome is difficult
- Thread starter reinofratch
- Start date
--Yes, it is very important in my opinion. I have played with a lot of musicians at a variety of skill levels. And I can usually tell who has put in the metronome time and who has not. Especially when it comes to syncopated parts.
I never use a metronome...
You're not going to see a metronome on stage when you play........or hear one on music that you record.
Metronomes were used back in the day when they didn't have access to drum tracks.
Now we do have access to drum tracks.....zillions of them....in all manner of availability
I use drum tracks..........
Metronomes are for Grade 4 school kids just starting out on piano.......
You're not going to see a metronome on stage when you play........or hear one on music that you record.
Metronomes were used back in the day when they didn't have access to drum tracks.
Now we do have access to drum tracks.....zillions of them....in all manner of availability
I use drum tracks..........
Metronomes are for Grade 4 school kids just starting out on piano.......
Disagree.
Drum machines, drum tracks, recordings, and live drummers will give you a false security in your sense of accurate tempo.
They want to help you sound good! They are very forgiving to your ear, They will guide you with lots of cues and hold your hands while you try to play with accurate tempo.
They will help the brain fill in the missing gaps so you don't sound as poor at tempo as you really are.
It's tempo karoke.
A metronome is accurate, objective and unforgiving. It forces you to own the beats and subdivisions with a confidence that pre-recorded crutches can never give you.
OK, how's your time when you play something REALLY slow, like 60 BPM? Can you maintain that with the drummer only giving you a snare hit on 2 and 4?
But drum tracks fill in all the sound, they will mask the other players' bad time. It's not just about hitting the 1 with the drums, it's the bass player's job (it's EVERYONE'S job) to keep time independently from what else is going on.
No, they're for any musician wanting to work with a reliable and unwavering standard to confirm their own time.
The big fallacy is using a metronome like a drum machine to keep time for you. That's utterly useless in the long run. What you do is use the metronome to inform you if you're speeding up or slowing down, or both. That's why the common suggestions to have the 'nome only give you one beat or two beats per measure and hang your own sense of time out there naked. If you can't play with a 'nome only giving you 2 and 4, your time is jacked and all the cool drum parts in the world won't make you sound right.
Drum machine patterns are wonderful for practicing grooves and "styles", but you really have to be able to play in time relying on your own sense of time. And, despite my great admiration for Jeff Berlin and his teaching, a 'nome is very useful if used correctly.
John
I read several pages of a Jeff Berlin thread and when pinned down with specifics he admitted that,
to verify a specific part at a required accurate concert speed, he would use a metronome.
But he stated that this was not "practicing with a metronome" but "preparation"
to verify a specific part at a required accurate concert speed, he would use a metronome.
But he stated that this was not "practicing with a metronome" but "preparation"
A very wise and strange friend used to tell me the trick was to teach the metronome to play along with me....
I am a bassist for hire and get pick-up gigs on a frequent basis. One particular band leader will often send me charts for original tunes I am unfamiliar with. Being a considerate band-leader, this guy always scores his music with the tempo in BPM printed at the top. In the absence of any other clues as to how the tune might go, I use a metronome to determine the tempo and then I go practise the tune. In the absence of better methods, I find this very useful.
Use your metronomes all you like... I won't be....
Digital drum tracks are right on the money for timing.....no problem
And you can program the bridges,fills and change-ups
to your liking..........something an oldschool metronome doesn't do.
Practically every where else, except at home sitting by yourself, you are playing to percussion or a drummer.
(granted there are genres of music sans drummer but most electric bass players will be playing to percussion)
Metronomes sound like metronomes and percussion sounds like percussion.......
Lots of old school blues players will switch timing and jump beats in a song...
Prog rock does this too......so do some types of Jazz.......
Basic metronomes will not do this........
Some metronomes will give you access to 5/4 time and other such "offbeats"........but you don't get the percussive "feel' at all....
Digital drum tracks are right on the money for timing.....no problem
And you can program the bridges,fills and change-ups
to your liking..........something an oldschool metronome doesn't do.
Practically every where else, except at home sitting by yourself, you are playing to percussion or a drummer.
(granted there are genres of music sans drummer but most electric bass players will be playing to percussion)
Metronomes sound like metronomes and percussion sounds like percussion.......
Lots of old school blues players will switch timing and jump beats in a song...
Prog rock does this too......so do some types of Jazz.......
Basic metronomes will not do this........
Some metronomes will give you access to 5/4 time and other such "offbeats"........but you don't get the percussive "feel' at all....
Still, though...if someone can't keep time with a basic 4/4 metronome beat, how in the world are they going to keep time on more complicated stuff?
And what if someone is playing a song which is supposed to be a nice steady 4/4 beat, which the drummer is supplying rather than the metronome. So someone is supposed to magically play the 4/4 beat correctly in time with the drummer-- but they can't keep on time with a metronome?
Babies have to learn to crawl before they walk, much less run. Start with a metronome nice and slow on a 4/4. Do scales in time with the beat. Do pentatonic walks but stay on the 4/4. Do a walking bass line-- but staying on that slow 4/4.
Then increase the BPM slightly. Do the same exercises again. Fingers can't keep up, slow back down. Fingers want to speed up? Slow the BPM down even more and concentrate on keeping slow.
And what if someone is playing a song which is supposed to be a nice steady 4/4 beat, which the drummer is supplying rather than the metronome. So someone is supposed to magically play the 4/4 beat correctly in time with the drummer-- but they can't keep on time with a metronome?
Babies have to learn to crawl before they walk, much less run. Start with a metronome nice and slow on a 4/4. Do scales in time with the beat. Do pentatonic walks but stay on the 4/4. Do a walking bass line-- but staying on that slow 4/4.
Then increase the BPM slightly. Do the same exercises again. Fingers can't keep up, slow back down. Fingers want to speed up? Slow the BPM down even more and concentrate on keeping slow.
Drum machines give you the rhythm. Metronomes force you to figure it out on your own. Once you get comfortable with playing along with the metronome on quarters or clicking on beats 2 and 4, start switching back and forth between 3/4, 4/4/, and 5/4 with the metronome on the downbeat and you playing quarters. Good exercise to internalize the beat.
That's lousy advice for someone having trouble finding the downbeat.
I just don't think there are many rules to using a metronome but rather it helps solve specific problems and then gets turned off.
Whatever you do, keep practicing this! You need to be able to play in time if you're going to be a real musician.
I am working through Ed Friedland's book, "Bass Grooves". He is a big fan of the metronome. Chapter 2 has some very good [non-trivial] metronome exercises.
I highly recommend this book for making friends with the metronome; and for helping to improve one's bass playing.
Cheers!
I highly recommend this book for making friends with the metronome; and for helping to improve one's bass playing.
Cheers!
Start simple - just learn to tap your foot in time with the click - then double up and etc. After you master that turn your bass volume down so you can hear the click better and do it with your bass and just pretend the click is a rock solid drummer that you have keep in time with.
If you are playing in a band you are at the mercy of the drummer's timing........no matter how good you were with a metronome......so the timing issue is relative to the event at hand......
If you are recording in a home studio (which I do) just about everything you lay down can be cleaned up with the "quantize" button anyway.
Many of the protracks on records are tightened up with the "quantize" option........so you think you're hearing a really tight group when in fact you're hearing the results of studio "quantize' over their playing.
You can make up all sorts of bass lines to digital drum tracks........such as "funk" for example.......
But you are doing it to a 'funk" drum track and you can get a much quicker feel for it than playing "funk" lines to little clicks on a metronome.
Ditto for jazz tracks or any tracks.....the nuances dictate what you are going to do......not the Chinese water-torture "clop clop clop " of a metronome.....
If you are recording in a home studio (which I do) just about everything you lay down can be cleaned up with the "quantize" button anyway.
Many of the protracks on records are tightened up with the "quantize" option........so you think you're hearing a really tight group when in fact you're hearing the results of studio "quantize' over their playing.
You can make up all sorts of bass lines to digital drum tracks........such as "funk" for example.......
But you are doing it to a 'funk" drum track and you can get a much quicker feel for it than playing "funk" lines to little clicks on a metronome.
Ditto for jazz tracks or any tracks.....the nuances dictate what you are going to do......not the Chinese water-torture "clop clop clop " of a metronome.....
---All of this is true, but yet it still helps to practice with a metronome. I'll give you 2 examples where my metronome practicing paid off, both of them in church settings.
1st, at a church that had a new (to the church) drummer. The worship leader sent the wrong chord charts out and we didn't have a practice during the week (worship leader had a funeral to go to). We show up Sunday and find out that we are playing different songs than told. Drummer wasn't familiar with one of the songs at all and was hesitating...luckily, I kept steady. He thanked me later for, "driving that song with such a strong groove." Years later this same drummer told me that he always is relieved when he sees me show up because my playing is,"so precise. You hit the notes just exactly in the right place. The other bassists hit the right notes, but it's not the same."
2nd example, playing at a new church for me...a church with full in-ear system (when those were relatively new) that wanted the songs note for note from original. I was called in at last minute due to a family emergency of their regular bassist and none of their alternates were available. I worked with one of the singers and they asked me because there was no one else in their church available. So I show up and the worship leader asks if I'd used in-ears before. When I said no, he looked very nervous and explained that I would be hearing a click-track in one ear and the rest of the band in the other. He said that it takes awhile for most musicians to get used to the click-track. Well, it didn't take me long at all and that was one of the tightest bands that I've ever played with. Everyone came back on time even after long pauses during songs all because everyone was used to a metronome click. Afterward, the worship leader asked if I would be interested in a permanent spot in their monthly rotation. I declined, because I was already playing regularly at two other churches, but I did fill in again several times over the next few years.
In both of those cases, I'm not sure how I would have done if I were only used to practicing with a drum track. I might have been ok, but maybe not. So I'll continue to put in the work with a metronome, even if it isn't fun.
Or the players around you. I have never been at the mercy of a drummer, nor has any good musician i know....a drummers job is not to lay down the tempo. That idea will cause more problems than it is worth....everyone is responsible for the tempo. If a drummer cannot play inside that tempo they are just a bad drummer and will be sacked before anyone is at their mercy.
