Playing with show choir: when too quiet is too loud

[GregShadoan]

Hey, you worked with TSO? Know a guy named Jeff Bonny? I forget what he did, but I think it had to do with lights.

Yeah, 2 or 3 times. But no, I don't remember. Sorry.

 

[DWBass]

Drummer question??? Did he switch to brushes or rods in an effort to quiet down?

 

[two fingers]

Hmmmm.....unfortunately all of my experiences have been bad. I wish it weren't the case. Let me start out by saying the following is just my opinion (that way I don't have to say it after every sentence). Choirs don't know what they want....period. I've worked with several, in lots of different situations, from church, to local show choirs. If the choir is already established, and THEN they decide to add live musicians (a full band) later, then you are screwed. Choirs DO NOT like change. They want all the advantages of having a live band, but don't want to change anything about their routine to incorporate the band. They want to stand in the same place they have always stood. They want to hear the piano only (because they always have). Drums are to be seen but not heard. They CAN'T STAND mics and/or monitors. I have found them to have a bit of a "mob mentality". If one person complains about anything, several others will chime in with "Yea! What HE said." type comments, and soon it's no fun for anybody. As sad as it seems, I think mobs (I mean choirs) should stick to very traditional piano songs and stay away from rock-n-roll. Now...before you jump on me as closed-minded, or generalizing, please understand that there are a few things to consider. These were MY experiences with choirs in MY area. I (and other musicians) tried EVERYTHING to make these people happy. I've seen drummers with brushes, practice pads on drums, even towels on drum heads. I've shown up with only a DI box so that "my" volume wasn't an issue. Even a little bit of bass through the PA was too much. I set the tone on my bass to flat so that the sound guy could have his way with it. I've seen guitarists switch from electric to acoustic (even though that sound really didn't fit the song). I've changed entire arrangements to take out "all the loud parts". (And trust me...that wasn't easy. I suck at treble clef.) NOTHING pleases these people! I can think of 5 different situation off the top of my head (and there were probably more) when it finally wound up as a choir and a piano. No mics, no PA, no nothing. And in EACH AND EVERY case, the CHOIR had come to US trying to set up a "rock show". "We want to spice it up a bit." Blah blah blah... I really apologize for the rant. And I hate that your show didn't work out. It's the nature of choirs.


Again...I just want to reiterate, these are just my opinions and I don't hate choir people. God love 'em, they have their place in the music world. I just wish they would stay away from OTHER places in the music world.

 

[goran]

You pretty much descibed what I have experienced, only you gave more details .

They really are very professional and appreciated choir that won many golden medals in various international events. Thing is, they won it performing gospel and classical music. I think they just weren't ready for a band.

Other than volume issues, they complained about us not playing songs as they were originally recorded (lines / dynamics). They said that each song sounded the same. Well, you can imagine what we sounded like when only allowed dynamic range was from quietest to quiet. Whenever we played any louder, it was a problem for them. Not much fun playing like that. I understand them, though. But I think that they shouldn't have started something if they weren't sure they are willing to eventually finish it.

Goran

 

[Phil Smith]

Other than volume issues, they complained about us not playing songs as they were originally recorded (lines / dynamics). They said that each song sounded the same. Well, you can imagine what we sounded like when only allowed dynamic range was from quietest to quiet. Whenever we played any louder, it was a problem for them. Not much fun playing like that. I understand them, though. But I think that they shouldn't have started something if they weren't sure they are willing to eventually finish it.

Goran

If fun for you is playing loud, then you may want to try to think about other ways to have fun. IMO, if someone says you're too loud you are and you can always get lower especially if you're used to playing "fun" loud. As someone mentioned before the choir is the lead instrument and if you can't clearly hear them, you're too loud, it's really as simple as that, when you can't hear the lead instrument clearly and distinctly you're too loud. It's not about turning them up, which is what usually happens, it's about the band coming down. A drummer that can't play quietly isn't really all that good because the top drummers can play quietly even if they have to play with their hands and no sticks, rods or brushes.

 

[goran]

If fun for you is playing loud, then you may want to try to think about other ways to have fun. IMO, if someone says you're too loud you are and you can always get lower especially if you're used to playing "fun" loud. As someone mentioned before the choir is the lead instrument and if you can't clearly hear them, you're too loud, it's really as simple as that, when you can't hear the lead instrument clearly and distinctly you're too loud. It's not about turning them up, which is what usually happens, it's about the band coming down. A drummer that can't play quietly isn't really all that good because the top drummers can play quietly even if they have to play with their hands and no sticks, rods or brushes.

I think you didn't understand what I wanted to say.

Songs we mostly played were from 50's and 60's but there were some more recent ones. Please let me know how could you expect drummer to play Madonna's "Like a prayer" with his hands. Or maybe Queen's" Bohemian Rhapsody"??? And still expect it to sound like original??

Yeah, we really turned down (please see posts 1 & 4). It's my bass what was barely audible, not choir (they were loud if you ask me). And we were still being too loud for them.

See what I ment when I said that it's no much fun.

Goran

 

[GregShadoan]

I think you didn't understand what I wanted to say.

Songs we mostly played were from 50's and 60's but there were some more recent ones. Please let me know how could you expect drummer to play Madonna's "Like a prayer" with his hands. Or maybe Queen's" Bohemian Rhapsody"??? And still expect it to sound like original??

Yeah, we really turned down (please see posts 1 & 4). It's my bass what was barely audible, not choir (they were loud if you ask me). And we were still being too loud for them.

See what I ment when I said that it's no much fun.

Goran

Sounds to me like you dodged a bag of rocks. Probably for the best, for you.