Please help me keep the lows in my own house

[Downunderwonder]

So what is you ear observation using the filter? Is it kinda just like turning down the bass tone knob on the amp or using a regular EQ pedal and lowering the sliders in the 125Hz position and whatever other bands are to the left of that? Or is the final result of the filter something completely different to your ear than what I just asked?

Ime it's different. With 12 band of EQ I can get close but still not the same.

 

[agedhorse]

Not even close, I have more experience with HPFs than most folks as I have been using them for 40 years and designing bass products with them for about 30 years now.

If it wasn't significantly different, we wouldn't bother with the expense and real estate of the feature.

 

[Riff Ranger]

So what is you ear observation using the filter? Is it kinda just like turning down the bass tone knob on the amp or using a regular EQ pedal and lowering the sliders in the 125Hz position and whatever other bands are to the left of that? Or is the final result of the filter something completely different to your ear than what I just asked?

I haven't had a ton of time with the HPF/LPF yet, but I grew up on graphic EQ. I happen to have three graphic EQ pedals at the moment (because life is weird), and I ruled those out as part of the solution before I even posted; my two big rigs also have graphic EQs on them and to paraphrase @agedhorse drastically cutting the lows that way just sounds like garbage. If I knew exactly which frequency had caused the most trouble and happened to have a graphic EQ slider that matched it (and I think a parametric EQ would better suit that task), perhaps a narrow cut at that frequency would help as @Downunderwonder seems to suggest, but I have no way of knowing that anytime soon.

Clearly we have contributors to this thread who can explain it better than I can, and I hope they'll correct me if I'm wrong, but if I understand correctly:

The HPF knob just cuts from the selected frequency down. I don't know whether it's more of a slope or a cliff. A graphic EQ slider cuts (or boosts) its assigned frequency by the level indicated, but it affects a band of frequencies in either direction to a degree. (@agedhorse spelled some of this out a few replies back.)

It seems like the sliders at the lower frequencies should cure the rumble, but a HPF would do the job much more efficiently and effectively.

As for my initial observations in my situation, I have to set that HPF pretty high before my instrument stops sounding like a bass. Even set at 140hz to get safely outside of the sub-125hz "danger zone," my detuned five-string (again, life is weird) still sounds okay. I just kept my rotary EQ knobs on the Traynor where I liked them (lows slightly boosted, low mids slightly cut, high mids boosted more, highs slightly boosted). The tone changes only slightly, but the rumble and rattle nearly disappear. I will continue to twiddle knobs, but I think it does what I want without introducing anything I don't want.

I will hopefully get a chance tomorrow to see how it affects noise in the neighborhood.

 

[Downunderwonder]

I am surprised that setting as high as 140hz HPF doesn't hurt your jollies but totally get the removal of that which only rumbles is why we do it.

 

[wizard65]

I have a Boss eq pedal as well as a HPF on my board. The eq pedal is useful for boosting mids etc, but I find it useless for removing mud, I find I loose to much bass.
With the HPF I can keep all the (good) bass while removing the mud.

 

[Riff Ranger]

I am surprised that setting as high as 140hz HPF doesn't hurt your jollies but totally get the removal of that which only rumbles is why we do it.

I would prefer to set it lower, but it sounds okay up to that point. Tomorrow's test shall tell.

 

[Riff Ranger]

To my ear, at least, the HPF does not have the dramatic effect I had hoped for outside the house. Noticeable, but probably not enough to start cranking the tube rig again. As far as things go outside the house, we fortunately seem to have found a suitable volume that works for everyone, with the HPF providing further assurance. (I also looped a guitar riff and determined that I would have to get louder than I would ever want before anybody could even hear it across the street ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ no fair!) I do wonder whether cutting the very lowest lows helps prevent rumble at a distance, but I doubt even the swankiest 200w 1x12 combo reproduces much of those in the first place.

I might have kept the HPF/LPF even for the slight difference it makes outside the house, but I will definitely keep it for the more noticeable difference it makes inside the house, which my whole family can appreciate. I also like the LPF, particularly with my active basses and my guitars. Ironically, the HPF/LPF might make headphones a more appealing option than they had been.

Based on this limited experience, I might recommend a HPF/LPF generally, but not as a magic bullet for containing lows by itself.

 

[seamonkey]

Maybe you're a person who likes the tactile feel of loud bass?
Maybe an Eich bass board or one of the sub woofer vests might fill that void in for you.
Game sim rigs use these a lot these days so there is a big crossover market in haptic subs

 

[Riff Ranger]

Maybe you're a person who likes the tactile feel of loud bass?

Definitely, and I may look into some of the different takes on this recommended in this thread. I think I'm getting just enough of that where I've ended up, but more (without bothering the neighbors) wouldn't hurt

 

[Redbrangus]

Maybe you're a person who likes the tactile feel of loud bass?

Doesn't everyone here?

 

[VolverseLoco]

To my ear, at least, the HPF does not have the dramatic effect I had hoped for outside the house. Noticeable, but probably not enough to start cranking the tube rig again. As far as things go outside the house, we fortunately seem to have found a suitable volume that works for everyone, with the HPF providing further assurance. (I also looped a guitar riff and determined that I would have to get louder than I would ever want before anybody could even hear it across the street ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ no fair!) I do wonder whether cutting the very lowest lows helps prevent rumble at a distance, but I doubt even the swankiest 200w 1x12 combo reproduces much of those in the first place.

I might have kept the HPF/LPF even for the slight difference it makes outside the house, but I will definitely keep it for the more noticeable difference it makes inside the house, which my whole family can appreciate. I also like the LPF, particularly with my active basses and my guitars. Ironically, the HPF/LPF might make headphones a more appealing option than they had been.

Based on this limited experience, I might recommend a HPF/LPF generally, but not as a magic bullet for containing lows by itself.

A very nice, non-biased response, thank you! I have a Source Audio SA270 EQ pedal that you can build both parametric and standard EQ curves with you computer connected to it. There is a built in HPF but the start of it is only 80Hz and *looks* to be about a 2 order Butterworth by the slope. Those guys at SA say maybe in the next software release to come, the HPF and LPF's will be more of a range. What I will do with it is use it in parametric mode and see how close I can model your HPF at 125Hz in it and see what my amp sounds like through it.

 

[Roxbororob]

I use my HPF to actually increase bass (I keep mine set low down, either at 35hz lowest pre-set or somewhere under 80hz depending on the room). Cutting out that mud and boomy bass allows for tighter louder response from the amp & cab.

Mind you I admit that I have tried mine at 140hz and found the sound too thin for my liking...

 

[Zbysek]

Maybe you're a person who likes the tactile feel of loud bass?
Maybe an Eich bass board or one of the sub woofer vests might fill that void in for you.

+1

I love my Eich bassboard...

 

[GrahamNN3]

To my ear, at least, the HPF does not have the dramatic effect I had hoped for outside the house.

Just a thought - if there's still a problem after you've taken off the low-end with a HPF - then the problem might be caused by an acoustic room / building resonance at a certain frequency?

if you could plug in a tone generator through your system and sweep through the frequencies - you might find something jumps out? If you find the frequency - it's then a case of notching out with an Eq - parametric or graphic.

There are iPhone & Andriod tone generator apps.

 

[Redbrangus]

Just a thought - if there's still a problem after you've taken off the low-end with a HPF - then the problem might be caused by an acoustic room / building resonance at a certain frequency?

if you could plug in a tone generator through your system and sweep through the frequencies - you might find something jumps out? If you find the frequency - it's then a case of notching out with an Eq - parametric or graphic.

There are iPhone & Andriod tone generator apps.

Whether or not this would be effective, I couldn't say, but I would advise at least a modicum of caution when playing LF sinusoidal waveforms through your rig -- I'd reduce the level by 50% or more.

 

[GrahamNN3]

Whether or not this would be effective, I couldn't say, but I would advise at least a modicum of caution when playing LF sinusoidal waveforms through your rig -- I'd reduce the level by 50% or more.

Yes - go steady.

You may also have little control over a resonance - I experienced this once when a Police Helicopter hovered somewhere above my house - a resonance in the chimney and fireplace caused by the helicopter made the room shake!

 

[Redbrangus]

You'll might also find that it isn't just a matter of notching out an offending frequency -- harmonic content and broadband noise like a drum set will still excite a resonant system whether it's a room mode or a mechanical resonance. This is part of the "EQ-ing a room" fallacy that still pervades the audio world. (IMHO...)

 

[agedhorse]

Whether or not this would be effective, I couldn't say, but I would advise at least a modicum of caution when playing LF sinusoidal waveforms through your rig -- I'd reduce the level by 50% or more.

Yes, I sometimes see damage caused by the careless use of testing with sine wave signals. It is quite possible to damage drivers and even amps if somebody doesn't know what they are doing.

 

[Zbysek]

I would prefer to set it lower, but it sounds okay up to that point. Tomorrow's test shall tell.

Ironically, the HPF/LPF might make headphones a more appealing option than they had been.

Definitely, and I may look into some of the different takes on this recommended in this thread.

The more I read your posts and think about your situation, the more I tend to think that you would benefit significantly from getting tactile transducer, like Eich Bassboard (preferrably) or Backbeat.

EICH Amplification :
BackBeat - Play Bass, Feel Bass

These devices give you the feeling of playing loud (very loud in case of Eich board) without any noise whatsoever.

When you stand on the Eich bassboard, it feels like standing in front of wall of cabs with huge power..still, there is no noise audible for others (who do not stand on the board).

It may seem strange...but the sensation the board gives actually feels like hearing the bass...

Those devices can be used either with or without headphones. Actually, I have found that I don't need to put my (fretted) bass into my IEM, as the feeling the Eich board gives me is enough for my monitoring needs.

Sometimes, I use the Eich bassboard with one of my cabs. I plug one of my amp's speaker outputs into the cab, the other into the board. Both the cab and the board are 8 ohms, so my 4 ohms amp is happy. That way, I can keep the stage audible sound level low.

This is what I would do if I were in your shoes: I would get Eich bassboard and use it with one of your amps/cabs (raised to ear level). That way, you would be hearing your bass' mid/high frequencies frequencies from the cab while feeling the low frequencies from the board...

Edit: in case you have equipment which is able to split your signal into two (like stereo pedal or preamp pedal with two outputs) I would arrange kind of bi-amped rig: I would use your solid state amp head to feed the Eich board and would use the class D combo with the HPF pedal in front of it (maxed) at ear level to provide higher frequencies for your ears…

That way, you would be able to adjust the level of both the low frequencies and the higher frequencies. It would allow you to "hear" yourself loud and clear anywhere and anytime without any excessive noise...

 

[Downunderwonder]

I use my HPF to actually increase bass (I keep mine set low down, either at 35hz lowest pre-set or somewhere under 80hz depending on the room). Cutting out that mud and boomy bass allows for tighter louder response from the amp & cab.

Mind you I admit that I have tried mine at 140hz and found the sound too thin for my liking...

Same for me although I describe it as a better quality of 'solid' bottom end rather than getting louder.