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Poll: Do you use your own DI live?

Do you use your own personal DI or use what's provided?

  • Total voters
    222
#81
Yeah I have to agree with you, I don't get why if a sound guys is knowledgeable to the extent that they can determine whether someone is an "idiot" or not can't also have a civil discussion with these kinds of people, if a band is entirely unreasonable then it's fair enough to give them that kinda treatment, but there's certainly no need for that mentality.

Hate the showing off the PA thing too, really irritates me, even a couple of soundguys I actually quite like and respect - one of which is even the guy who sorted out micing my NV215 to sound awesome with one mic, something I really should have thought of myself - but those guys mostly just try and make everything sound a bit too big and huge and crank the volume, and everything gets a bit lost and very messy mixed together cos of it. There are much worse people though, the ones that consider themselves to have a reputation, of which some of them actually do, that wanna do thing their way lest they might not be able to do certain things and be embarrassed infront of other sound guys and other stupid crap like that. It's like going into a studio and being told what to do because they have a certain level of professionalism or whatever to maintain, I understand it to an extent, but YOUR paying THEM to record you regardless of how it reflect on a studio.

Little different when it comes to studio stuff though, cos when your spending that much money you should know that the guy(s) your gonna be recording with are gonna be able to record your band well and actually care about it. The studio we were in before we did our EP had no enthusiasm, and despite him being very good you could tell he didn't really care and it reflected alot with what came out. You don't usually have the same kinda control over who does your sound unless you have the luxury of your own soundguy, or even your own pro audio equipment full stop, but it seems to have very similar outcomes.
 
#82
JimmyM said:
It's one thing if you're a dumb kid playing your first gig and not knowing the first thing about PA, but when you're an experienced player who knows what he's doing, the soundman needs to get out of your way, let you be you, and deal with what you give him.

There's a certain soundman mentality that thinks that your band exists solely to show off the PA.
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msquared said:
That only works if the experienced bass player knows about FOH sound. My experience is that most do, but that there are some out there who really don't.

When I'm running sound, I assume that everyone I'm dealing with is an idiot unless they are able to prove otherwise. Too many shows have been ruined by people with a lot of chops and matching ego who insist on any number of really asinine requests to get "their" sound.

Of course as a musician I've dealt with my share of sound people who were in too much of a hurry to get back to the bar to actually have a conversation about it. There are problematic individuals on both sides of the fence.
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JimmyM said:
You can stop right there. You've turned me off completely already. That's one of the most arrogant things I've ever heard, and it's a good way to make a band hate you. Who are you to make that judgment sight unseen, and who are you to dictate to a band how to do things?
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I first read these posts late last night (early this morning?) after my gig, and I had to click off of them to be certain I didn't type something that I would later regret.

I say this because I have witnessed these types of situations/attitudes over the years from both sides of the equation (but primarily from the musician's point of view.) I amazes me the number of sound companies that seem to have the attitude that the musicians exist for the sound company, rather than the other way around. The lack of respect that is sometimes demonstrated is beyond my ability to comprehend. By the way, don't get me wrong, I've worked with some fabulous sound companies over the years as well......a pleasure to work with!

Ultimately, without a mutual respect, the situation is flawed. As a musician, you should be able to trust that the sound company has your best interests in mind, and the knowledge and expertise to facilitate your performance.

As a soundman/sound company, you should be aware that the musician has spent significant time, effort and money to develop the sound that they wish to convey to the audience. As a soundman, it is not your responsibility to change the band or musicians involved, but simply to present them to the audience in the best possible fashion.

Both of these scenarios assume competence from all parties, and there may well need to be some compromise involved, but only for the good of the performance, not to stroke an ego or accomodate an attitude.

Sorry for the long post/rant, but somehow this struck a nerve. By the way, my opinions are not directed at either of the TBer's I quoted in this post, it just so happened they had the discussion going and I had to toss in my 2 cents worth. ;)
 
#83
depending on the gig

certain places have their backline all ready to go to the PA, so i just plug into there. (sometimes good, sometimes bad.)

other times if its appropriate ill use the sansamp DI

and most often i just go out from the back of my markbass amps. i love that DI.
 
#85
Well it was late at night, but honestly, I thought I was being nice...you should have seen the first draft!

Even though I've been stuck with some bad soundmen in my day, I never assume they're idiots right off the bat. I figure if they can plug in a sound system and make it work, they must have something on the ball, because I can't. I do just the opposite...I assume they're smart until proven otherwise. The other way is just setting yourself up for a negative experience all the way around. Why even do it if you assume you're going to have to work with idiots? Who wants that?
 
#86
JimmyM said:
Well it was late at night, but honestly, I thought I was being nice...you should have seen the first draft!
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I'd love to. :smug:

Seriously, I don't get how you can get so bent out of shape at what I put after implying that the soundguy needs to just get out of your way. Your job isn't to run sound, it's to play the music. If you aren't working with the rest of your team, everyone suffers.

Why do I assume that everyone I'm working with is an idiot (as relates to FOH sound - sorry if that part wasn't painfully obvious, kids) before they engage me in a conversation about it? One reason is that, as this thread illustrates nicely, a lot of musicians have a tendency consider the sound guy to either be malicious or an idiot. It saves a lot of time if I can just make the same assumption and get on with things. The other reason is because I am first and foremost a musician and have been working with other musicians for a long damn time. While there are plenty who really know their stuff in this area, there are simply a lot more who don't. In both of these groups there is a large majority which will attempt to dictate how the sound should be run.

To me, a band's members are entitled to give general instructions as to how the sound should be out in the crowd because it's their show, but how that goal is achieved is in the hands of whoever is running sound. In order for that sonic goal to be reached, there needs to be some room for that individual to work toward it. Micromanaging that stuff from onstage is like trying to build a ship in a bottle with the lights off. It doesn't matter how steady your hand is or how long you've been doing it, if you can't see in the dark, you aren't going to pull it off.

How many posts are here in the Amps forum where someone is insisting that they have to run their "perfectly EQ'd" signal to the board? Out of all of these, how many of these people have also posted something elsewhere to the effect of "my amp is at 11 and I can't hear myself over my band, I have the enhance knob cranked and the mids all the way down, what am I doing wrong???"

What about the number of threads in the Band Management forum like the one going now about the drummer telling the sound guy to turn the bass player down in the mix?

Jimmy, I'm sorry if I insulted you with my statement because it certainly wasn't directed at you specifically. However I make no apologies about my earlier generalization, because I have enough tact to make it work on the gig and it results in quick set changes and a FOH which sounds quite nice.
 
#87
Well like I said before many times, if you're dealing with idiots who do things like no mids and enhance knob up all the way, or a drummer telling you to turn down the bass in the house, that's one thing. But if you're dealing with grown men and women who know what they're doing, they really don't need you to put their stamp on their sound, especially without their approval. For example, I work with a soundman who's great most of the time, but he loves those freqs past 5k that I hate. So when I work with him, I have to roll off everything past 5k or else he'll slip them in when I'm not paying attention. And that's when I want the soundman to get out of my way and not try to correct me, and it's the reason I now run a mic only or a DI post-EQ from the amp when I don't use a mic.
 
#88
JimmyM said:
...if you're dealing with grown men and women who know what they're doing, they really don't need you to put their stamp on their sound, especially without their approval.
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While "grown men and women who know what they're talking about" is extremely subjective, I am specifically not talking about the sound guy putting their stamp on a sound.

Why does your soundguy love the 5k enhance? Is it because of a personal aesthetics thing or does he feel like that needs to be there due to something your band or the room is doing?

How do you even know what the overall sound is like? Do you habitually go out into the crowd with a wireless pack during songs?
 
#92
msquared said:
While "grown men and women who know what they're talking about" is extremely subjective, I am specifically not talking about the sound guy putting their stamp on a sound.

Why does your soundguy love the 5k enhance? Is it because of a personal aesthetics thing or does he feel like that needs to be there due to something your band or the room is doing?

How do you even know what the overall sound is like? Do you habitually go out into the crowd with a wireless pack during songs?
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Absolutely I do. I don't stand in the crowd continually, but I do it once or twice a night. And I always go out for soundcheck unless it's someone I trust.

As for the 5k thing, well that's from years and years of using an Ampeg 810. For what I do, no soundman needs access to anything past 5k. And now that I use a B-15, that's closer to 4k he's getting. That's plenty. Anything higher than that makes the bass sound pingy. Great if you're Marcus Miller, not so great if you're me. And this soundman I work with is great, but his aesthetic is pure 80's, and we often have to get him to tone down the reverb as well because we're a 50's-60's band.
 

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