Polyphonic Pitch Shifter with Midi?

[jasonmitsch]

I am in the market for a polyphonic pitch shifter that can be controlled with Midi. I at least want to be able to play chords on my bass and shift them +1 or +2 octave with expression, though other intervals and controls would be awesome too.

The only options I know of are the Digitech Bass Whammy or the EHX HOG2.

-Bass Whammy: Too big. I'd rather just use my SA Dual Expression pedal to control everything. Reasonable price, so this might be my best option if I can give up the board space.

-HOG2: Too big. Expensive. Does a lot of things that would be cool, but I don't necessarily want or need.

My dream pedal would be a mini or standard sized pedal like a Sub n Up that I could control with expression and midi. If Source Audio made it that would be ideal so I could integrate it with the Hub and my other SA pedals.

SubnUp, Pitchfork, and Nano Pog all do the poly tracking but no midi control. I was looking at the Meris Hedra but they don't advertise it as polyphonic.

What are some of my options?

 

[GMC]

The Eventide H9 with the various pitch factor algorithms pretty much nails that on the head...and if you go for a max, opens up a plethora of modulation, delay and verbs too...
The Source Audio C4 with a corresponding hub is pretty mind blowing (pitch, octavers, filters, dirt, synth and step sequencer).
The Hog2 is a paving slab of a pedal...but if you want nice organ sounds on your bass...this is the pedal to get.
If you get a midi controller such as a Boss ES-5, you can assign it to send expression over midi to any number of pedals.

 

[Adamixoye]

Here's the thing I post every time this comes up:
Pitchshifting---a blind shootout for your perusal

My preferred pitch shifter for my applications is the Digitech Drop, because in my experience it's the best-sounding polyphonic pedal that does what I want (mostly down-tuning guitar and bass). Admittedly I've never tried the EHX Pitch Fork. A lot of people around here swear by it, but at least one review I've seen says that the Drop has better latency and tone (it's by the Six-String Samurai). This is in addition to the fact that they are fundamentally different concepts: the Drop does all the intervals from -1 to -7 half-steps, plus some octave stuff; the Pitch Fork does selected intervals up and down over multiple octaves but doesn't do, for example, +/- 1 half-step. The Drop is a "transposer"; the Pitch Fork is more for creating chords and/or doing Whammy stuff with an expression pedal.

The H9 is, according to the manual, only monophonic. In my experience I might call it quasi-polyphonic: you can get away with some simple chords but complex chords are a problem. You can use the Pitchflex algorithm and it will do what you're asking, with the caveat of only being "quasi-polyphonic" and then YMMV on the tone.

I have the SA C4 and the Nemesis. I still haven't dug into the C4 the way I would want. The Nemesis pitch shifting tone is nothing to write home about in my opinion. It's for that delayed pitch shifting sound, not for transposed or Whammy-like tones. It's my understanding that the C4 pitch shifting is basically the same.

My ideal box would be something that can do everything in the Pitchflex algorithm but with the Drop's tone and latency, MIDI-capable with presets. I'd like to think SA could do it if it was a priority for them but it does not seem to be. Either way, it currently doesn't exist.

 

[jasonmitsch]

The Eventide H9 with the various pitch factor algorithms pretty much nails that on the head...and if you go for a max, opens up a plethora of modulation, delay and verbs too...
The Source Audio C4 with a corresponding hub is pretty mind blowing (pitch, octavers, filters, dirt, synth and step sequencer).
The Hog2 is a paving slab of a pedal...but if you want nice organ sounds on your bass...this is the pedal to get.
If you get a midi controller such as a Boss ES-5, you can assign it to send expression over midi to any number of pedals.

I already have the C4, H9 Max, and Line6 HXFX. None of them do what I'm asking for. The polyphonic pitch shifting in the C4 has atrocious latency, I don't even know why they included it. H9 can handle 5ths and major 3rds, but it starts glitching on any other intervals. The HXFX pitch shifters are like the H9 and not polyphonic.

Here's the thing I post every time this comes up:
Pitchshifting---a blind shootout for your perusal

My preferred pitch shifter for my applications is the Digitech Drop, because in my experience it's the best-sounding polyphonic pedal that does what I want (mostly down-tuning guitar and bass). Admittedly I've never tried the EHX Pitch Fork. A lot of people around here swear by it, but at least one review I've seen says that the Drop has better latency and tone (it's by the Six-String Samurai). This is in addition to the fact that they are fundamentally different concepts: the Drop does all the intervals from -1 to -7 half-steps, plus some octave stuff; the Pitch Fork does selected intervals up and down over multiple octaves but doesn't do, for example, +/- 1 half-step. The Drop is a "transposer"; the Pitch Fork is more for creating chords and/or doing Whammy stuff with an expression pedal.

The H9 is, according to the manual, only monophonic. In my experience I might call it quasi-polyphonic: you can get away with some simple chords but complex chords are a problem. You can use the Pitchflex algorithm and it will do what you're asking, with the caveat of only being "quasi-polyphonic" and then YMMV on the tone.

I have the SA C4 and the Nemesis. I still haven't dug into the C4 the way I would want. The Nemesis pitch shifting tone is nothing to write home about in my opinion. It's for that delayed pitch shifting sound, not for transposed or Whammy-like tones. It's my understanding that the C4 pitch shifting is basically the same.

My ideal box would be something that can do everything in the Pitchflex algorithm but with the Drop's tone and latency, MIDI-capable with presets. I'd like to think SA could do it if it was a priority for them but it does not seem to be. Either way, it currently doesn't exist.

I appreciate how thorough your post was and even voted back in 2014! However it is outside of the scope of what I want. I want to shift up an octave, not down any intervals. I know the Bass Whammy, Hog2, Pog, Pitchfork, and SubnUp can do the polyphonic pitch shifting up. Only the Whammy or Hog2 can do it with midi control. I believe you are correct and what I want doesn't exist. I'll probably pick up a used nano Pog, Pitchfork, or SubnUp and suffer through not having midi control.

 

[Adamixoye]

I appreciate how thorough your post was and even voted back in 2014! However it is outside of the scope of what I want. I want to shift up an octave, not down any intervals. I know the Bass Whammy, Hog2, Pog, Pitchfork, and SubnUp can do the polyphonic pitch shifting up. Only the Whammy or Hog2 can do it with midi control. I believe you are correct and what I want doesn't exist. I'll probably pick up a used nano Pog, Pitchfork, or SubnUp and suffer through not having midi control.

Yes, I understand the Drop doesn't really do what you want, I was just trying to provide some context for my general thoughts on the state of the art / state of the market as it pertains to pitch shifting.

Since the H9 didn't quite do it for you, I agree what what you want may not exist at this time.

I did see a post within the last week or two suggesting Axe FX had upgraded the firmware of one of their units, I think the III which is a rack unit, and they included a very nice polyphonic pitchshifter. This is a crazy expensive and possibly inconvenient option that may or may not be better than what already exists.

 

[Adamixoye]

Here's the Axe-FX thing if you're interested:

 

[jasonmitsch]

Yes, I understand the Drop doesn't really do what you want, I was just trying to provide some context for my general thoughts on the state of the art / state of the market as it pertains to pitch shifting.

Since the H9 didn't quite do it for you, I agree what what you want may not exist at this time.

I did see a post within the last week or two suggesting Axe FX had upgraded the firmware of one of their units, I think the III which is a rack unit, and they included a very nice polyphonic pitchshifter. This is a crazy expensive and possibly inconvenient option that may or may not be better than what already exists.

It's crazy to me that for all the H9 can do, a nano Pog or SubnUp out perform it in this 1 niche.

Axe FX III is waaay overkill for me. I'd rather get the bass whammy or the Hog for a fraction of that price and not need a rack.

 

[jasonmitsch]

In one of the HX threads it was mentioned that Line6 have hired someone with a lot of experience with in polyphonic pitch shifting. I can hope that someday that becomes an added feature.

 

[Rabidhamster]

If you don’t like the h9max/Pitchfactor because it sounds a little glitchy then you will Probably despise the bass whammy. Assuming the H9max pitch shifting isn’t any different than the Pitchfactor, I think that’s the best available for midi controllable pitch shifting outside of a rack.


You may be able to get there with a hexaphonic pickup setup

 

[Adamixoye]

In one of the HX threads it was mentioned that Line6 have hired someone with a lot of experience with in polyphonic pitch shifting. I can hope that someday that becomes an added feature.

Man that would be pretty sweet

 

[jasonmitsch]

If you don’t like the h9max/Pitchfactor because it sounds a little glitchy then you will Probably despise the bass whammy. Assuming the H9max pitch shifting isn’t any different than the Pitchfactor, I think that’s the best available for midi controllable pitch shifting outside of a rack.


You may be able to get there with a hexaphonic pickup setup

Hex pickup and synth engine is a lot of kit for this 1 specific need I want to fill. I already know the POG, Pitchfork, and SubnUp can do what I want them to, I was just hoping for something else that I could integrate presets with.

Man that would be pretty sweet

Another option I found would be the TCE Plethora X5, which can receive midi commands and has the SubnUp and the Brainwaves. It's rather large and I already have the HXFX. I'm hoping that in the future TCE would release Plethora X1, kind of like an M5. One effect slot but every TCE pedal available in a small footprint. Until then I think the SubnUp mini is for me.

 

[Pedalnetics]

Here's my similar thread from a few weeks ago:
Digitech Bass Whammy | From The Basement Music Equipment | Reverb

I have a Meris Hedra on the way, it'll be here ~Monday. If you can wait until next week. I'll gladly report back on it and record a few sound cloud examples. My main want was octave up on a low B string controlled by Midi, so we'll see how the Hedra works out

If you're really adventurous, you could buy this broken Digitech Bass Whammy, remove the causing, and transfer it to something smaller under your board without the pedal:
Octave/Pitch pedals with Midi control

 

[jasonmitsch]

Here's my similar thread from a few weeks ago:
Octave/Pitch pedals with Midi control

I have a Meris Hedra on the way, it'll be here ~Monday. If you can wait until next week. I'll gladly report back on it and record a few sound cloud examples. My main want was octave up on a low B string controlled by Midi, in as small of a pedal package as possible, so we'll see how the Hedra works out

Ha I don't know how I missed that one, thanks for bringing your thread to my attention. The Hedra looks great but they don't advertise it as polyphonic. I want to be able to play triads and 7th chords above the 12th fret and shift them up an octave.

 

[Pedalnetics]

The Hedra looks great but they don't advertise it as polyphonic.

If you want to give me a few exact fret numberings of the chords you'd play, with what delays (if any?), I'd happily record those exact things for you.

I didn't really see them advertise it as poly or mono. I did see some guitar reviews saying its monophonic, but 6 guitar strings != 3 bass strings, and the bass demos are severly lacking in basic examples ("Here's a zero delay, multi-octave shift, with 1 note, and again with multiple notes")

 

[Adamixoye]

Everything I read about the Hedra suggested to me that it was like the H9/Pitchfactor in terms of whether it was monophonic or polyphonic. As in, they say monophonic but it does better than that, but it's not fully polyphonic either.

 

[Rabidhamster]

Hex pickup and synth engine is a lot of kit for this 1 specific need I want to fill. I already know the POG, Pitchfork, and SubnUp can do what I want them to, I was just hoping for something else that I could integrate presets with.



Another option I found would be the TCE Plethora X5, which can receive midi commands and has the SubnUp and the Brainwaves. It's rather large and I already have the HXFX. I'm hoping that in the future TCE would release Plethora X1, kind of like an M5. One effect slot but every TCE pedal available in a small footprint. Until then I think the SubnUp mini is for me.

I haven’t had one in a while unfortunately but from memory the POG has a somewhat limited expression range from what I remember, just stomping a switch.
The sub n up mini doesn’t have expression just the mash switch which looks pretty much like the POG “Expression” Button to me.
I’ll admit I’m curious about the plethora x5 now, although I remain skeptical that the expression pedal input could control Polyphonic pitch Expression like a whammy. I’d expect it to be a volume pedal or something on that patch instead. Would love to be wrong

 

[jasonmitsch]

If you want to give me a few exact fret numberings of the chords you'd play, with what delays (if any?), I'd happily record those exact things for you.

I didn't really see them advertise it as poly or mono. I did see some guitar reviews saying its monophonic, but 6 guitar strings != 3 bass strings, and the bass demos are severly lacking in basic examples ("Here's a zero delay, multi-octave shift, with 1 note, and again with multiple notes")

These are the more complex voicing I use, just moving those shapes around above the 12th fret:

Emaj7 E7 Em7 Em6 Amaj7 A7 Am7 Am6

G: --13-------13--------12--------12--------13-------12-----12------11----
D: --13-------12--------12--------11--------11-------11-----10------10----
A: --x----------x----------x--------x----------12-------12-----12------12----
E: --12-------12--------12---------12--------x---------x------x--------x----

I haven’t had one in a while unfortunately but from memory the POG has a somewhat limited expression range from what I remember, just stomping a switch.
The sub n up mini doesn’t have expression just the mash switch which looks pretty much like the POG “Expression” Button to me.
I’ll admit I’m curious about the plethora x5 now, although I remain skeptical that the expression pedal input could control Polyphonic pitch Expression like a whammy. I’d expect it to be a volume pedal or something on that patch instead. Would love to be wrong

I think you are correct about POG expression but expression isn't that important to me at the moment. I'm look for a static +1 octave and the POG or the SubnUp check that box.

I don't know that the SubnUp inside the Plethora would do pitch control with expression, but with the Brainwaves that would be ideal. I feel like it would be a huge omission by TC to not include that kind of expression control.

The main reason I want a pitch pedal like this that can be controlled with midi is so I can toggle between Dry+Octave or just Octave. I spent some time today using an EQ into the H9 and it helped a lot, but it's still not quite up to POG quality for more complex chords.

 

[Pedalnetics]

There is a slightly expensive, but probably exactly what you want option...a modded Pog2

MicroDesignum for Midi Control of switching presets
MIDI Control for Electro Harmonix POG2

And whatever this guy did:

 

[Adamixoye]

There is a slightly expensive, but probably exactly what you want option...a modded Pog2

MicroDesignum for Midi Control of switching presets
MIDI Control for Electro Harmonix POG2

And whatever this guy did:

I should have thought of this.

 

[jasonmitsch]

There is a slightly expensive, but probably exactly what you want option...a modded Pog2

MicroDesignum for Midi Control of switching presets
MIDI Control for Electro Harmonix POG2

And whatever this guy did:

HOG2 brand new is listed $478.50

Microdesignum POG2 new is $520 and would need to be shipped from Czech Republic to US.

I think I'd just buy a HOG2 if I'm gonna drop that kind of coin, then I'd get the freeze, expression, etc.

Honestly all this did was made me want that Key9 more than the POG lol.