Indeed. Sam's doesn't require any fancy items like shockmount elastic or felt cymbal washers, though, and probably gets better rejection because the mic is pointed directly at the top.
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Double Bass Poor Man's Mic Setup - SM-57 & Four Elastics
- Thread starter Sam Sherry
- Start date
Indeed. Sam's doesn't require any fancy items like shockmount elastic or felt cymbal washers, though, and probably gets better rejection because the mic is pointed directly at the top.
Just a thought.
On the Sm57 microphone, you can unscrew the head of the mic. Extend the green and yellow wires going from the head of the
mic to the transformer. Place the head of the mic between the bridge legs, using two rubber bands, and fit the transformer
with gaffa tape to the backsite of the tailpiece at the bottom. This will reduce the extra weight added to the bass
bridge.
On the Sm57 microphone, you can unscrew the head of the mic. Extend the green and yellow wires going from the head of the
mic to the transformer. Place the head of the mic between the bridge legs, using two rubber bands, and fit the transformer
with gaffa tape to the backsite of the tailpiece at the bottom. This will reduce the extra weight added to the bass
bridge.
Attachments
- May 6, 2003
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- Proprietor Fifth Avenue Fret Shop. Technical Editor Bass Gear Magazine
There most definitely are shielding issues. Once you remove the case the shield is gone. You'd need to use a 3 conductor shield wire and attach to the case on either end of the run with the ground. Even so you could have some noise problems being open like that.
Hey Sam, I checked out this 57-with-elastics thing tonight on a job for the first time. Brilliant, I says! I like it tons better than just an Underwood. The mic seems to stay put completely, too, even traveling in the gig bag.
How sweet it is...
That photo essay was a great idea.
How sweet it is...
That photo essay was a great idea.
As I recall that mic holder was custom made, it isn't a Fishman jack clip. If I can find the other pictures I'll post them.
Ric
It's the jack mounting plate from the K&K Bass Max. (Notice how the jack for the Bass Max in the photo is mounted behind the tailpiece instead of being mounted on the string afterlength as it normally is.)
I still like Sam's idea better though, and it's hard to beat a good dynamic mic for this application.
Last night I had fifteen minutes in between gigs, so I set up my amp at the club where I was playing, and used the sm 57 set-up at the christmas dinner I was playing at in the early evening.
Even though I was only running the mic through a yorkville keyboard amp, I was totally impressed with the tone I got. I would be interested in using a small mixer and a higher quality speaker next time.
The one thing that I did have a problem with was the fact that I believe the mic and elastics may have choked the sound of my bass a bit. I used heavier blue elastics as opposed to the thin ones that Mr. Sherry has on the in the photos. When I took the mic off before the second set of my club gig, I think the bass sounded louder. Does anyone think it was the tension on the bridge caused by the elastics, or perhaps it was the tension put on the string after-length? There is always the chance that it is all in my head...
Even though I was only running the mic through a yorkville keyboard amp, I was totally impressed with the tone I got. I would be interested in using a small mixer and a higher quality speaker next time.
The one thing that I did have a problem with was the fact that I believe the mic and elastics may have choked the sound of my bass a bit. I used heavier blue elastics as opposed to the thin ones that Mr. Sherry has on the in the photos. When I took the mic off before the second set of my club gig, I think the bass sounded louder. Does anyone think it was the tension on the bridge caused by the elastics, or perhaps it was the tension put on the string after-length? There is always the chance that it is all in my head...
Jake deVilliers
Commercial User
- May 24, 2006
- 6,349
- 607
- Disclosures
- Owner of The Bass Spa, String Repairman at Long & McQuade Vancouver
Nope, the weight of the mic slows down your bridge, as does the elastic bands and the afterlengths are very important parts of the tailpiece assembly's tone production.
That's one of the reasons we've gone to using the ATM350 clip-on mic.
So I gave this a try with both a 58 and a similar beyerdynamic
And ended up with a very uncomfortably boomy sound that quickly lead to feedback
How are you guys "focusing" your mic sound? I tried a couple different mic placements but none were any real improvement on the others
I was running them through an XLR to an ART preamp out to my PJB Flightcase
And ended up with a very uncomfortably boomy sound that quickly lead to feedback
How are you guys "focusing" your mic sound? I tried a couple different mic placements but none were any real improvement on the others
I was running them through an XLR to an ART preamp out to my PJB Flightcase
Nope, the weight of the mic slows down your bridge, as does the elastic bands and the afterlengths are very important parts of the tailpiece assembly's tone production.
That's one of the reasons we've gone to using the ATM350 clip-on mic.
Damn Jake, why do you always have to be so right......
Then what would be the worse of three evils, the rubber band method, the mic/foam combo in bridge method, or the mic wrapped in towel behind tailpiece method? I guess four, if you include the mic clip attached to the afterlength method.
Some recording engineers have stuffed a mike between the fingerboard and top as well.......not on MY bass though!
Jake deVilliers
Commercial User
- May 24, 2006
- 6,349
- 607
- Disclosures
- Owner of The Bass Spa, String Repairman at Long & McQuade Vancouver
I'm not even CLOSE to always being right, but this is a topic I have some familiarity with!
The 57 in the afterlengths definitely makes a usable sound but the teeny clip-on ATMs attached in the G side f-hole and looking mostly at the top (but peeking at the f-hole) are superior IMHO.
The 58 in a towel stuffed behind the tailpiece or in the bridge feet is okay if the bass is loud and the band is quiet but is feedback-limited.
I like Phil's side address mic between the legs of the bridge - I haven't tried it but Phil says its very good and Phil's right more often than I am!
The 57 in the afterlengths definitely makes a usable sound but the teeny clip-on ATMs attached in the G side f-hole and looking mostly at the top (but peeking at the f-hole) are superior IMHO.
The 58 in a towel stuffed behind the tailpiece or in the bridge feet is okay if the bass is loud and the band is quiet but is feedback-limited.
I like Phil's side address mic between the legs of the bridge - I haven't tried it but Phil says its very good and Phil's right more often than I am!
I'm sure the ATM350 is a much more sound-optimal solution, but this thread is titled "Poor Man's mic setup". The 57 is at least half the price of the ATM350. And actually, I just picked up an almost-new 57 at a local pawn shop for 50 bucks and I didn't see any ATM350s there, but I guess I got the 57 for a quarter the price of a new ATM350. The elastics were cheap...
Hey -- I'm a family man at Christmastime, a working musician and a part-time legit worker. The money matters!
I definitely notice the weight of the 57 hanging there. And intellectually I know it's not doing anything to help my tone. But I can't honestly say I can hear the difference in tone, pizz or arco, recorded or live. My recording test sounded damn good to me, but I know a real engineer using better mics could do a better job...
Hey -- I'm a family man at Christmastime, a working musician and a part-time legit worker. The money matters!
I definitely notice the weight of the 57 hanging there. And intellectually I know it's not doing anything to help my tone. But I can't honestly say I can hear the difference in tone, pizz or arco, recorded or live. My recording test sounded damn good to me, but I know a real engineer using better mics could do a better job...
- May 6, 2003
- 5,272
- 160
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- Disclosures
- Proprietor Fifth Avenue Fret Shop. Technical Editor Bass Gear Magazine
I dunno about that....I like Phil's side address mic between the legs of the bridge - I haven't tried it but Phil says its very good and Phil's right more often than I am!
The Sennheiser 409 I use is good but not cheap. They are out of production and over $400 when you find them. I'm not sure I'd buy one for this application at that $. Under $200 would be a different story. The current version (Sennheiser 609 and 906) is OK but I'm not sure how much better than a 57 or 58 it would be if at all. The $100 version (609) was OK when mixed with a pickup but it was bright and kind brash compared to the original. The 57 and Beta 57 sounded better to my ear. I hear the 906 is better and at $200 it might be worthy of an audition. That's still twice the dough of a 57.
I still never use the mic alone, I always just use a touch of it with the pickup. Warms everything up and makes it sound more like a bass. I turn it almost off when the band gets really loud and up when things are soft.
My bass sounds no different arco or pizz with the mic hanging around it's bridge on those rubber bands. I never take it off anymore. I put a gazillion rubber bands on it to keep it from moving to much. When I cable it up the mic cable and pickup cable wrap one time around the TP to keep them off the Table of the bass. That affects the sound a tiny bit. Not enough to not do it. I need to devise a way to keep all that junk off the TP and afterlength and still keep the cables from touching the Top of the bass.
Still working on that.
Jake deVilliers
Commercial User
- May 24, 2006
- 6,349
- 607
- Disclosures
- Owner of The Bass Spa, String Repairman at Long & McQuade Vancouver
Hey Damon, I was responding to PC's comments.
The AT Pro 35 is $129.99 at Music123.com with free shipping and sounds waaaay better than a 57.
The AT Pro 35 is $129.99 at Music123.com with free shipping and sounds waaaay better than a 57.
Whoa -- I did a quickie Google search this morning and that's about half the prices I was seeing... The two mics are close to equal in price, then. I'd definitely like to check it out, Jake.
One of these days...
One of these days...
I'm gonna go do this right now! I'm a new UB player (not a new bassist) and have a couple pending gigs, actually. Lo-key, for fun and some little profit, as my ear is okay and I'll 'get away with it' for now. No offense of sensibilities hoped at you veterans... anyway, this is going into my mixer-on-a-stand jig followed by an ART Tube EQ, to a power amp and 1x15 cab (or a 210).
I always use the mixer/EQ mic stand jig as my pre, so I can have any combo of axes always hooked up and ready to go at a gig. Anyway, this looks like it'll get me started! Thanks for the nice idea and step-by-step!
I always use the mixer/EQ mic stand jig as my pre, so I can have any combo of axes always hooked up and ready to go at a gig. Anyway, this looks like it'll get me started! Thanks for the nice idea and step-by-step!
So I tried this yesterday and have a couple questions, as I'm getting a lot of feedback to my amp. My rig is:
SM57, set up on the bass as described at the top of thread.
Mic cable >
Yamaha 10/2 mixer >
ART Tube EQ, Gains set for 'Unity' >
Crest FA1201 power amp >
Markbass TVR 210 cab (8 ohms, 400 watts)
Do I stop feedback by:
1) Lowering the gain at the mixer's Trim control?
2) Treating the mic at the bass' top somehow?
3) EQ?
4) Is my power amp too much?
4) Should I just get farther from the amp/cab? I'm in a small space, and maybe it's a logistics issue.
I also have a Sennheiser 'Pro-Fi Power' mic, which is a dynamic that looks like Elvis might have used in Las Vegas! And a couple LDCs: A Studio Projects B-3 and an Audio-Technica AT4033a.
AND there's an old Radio-Shack PZM mic (a Crown 'second') which might be interesting to slick inside the bass...
I'm listening! Thanks.
SM57, set up on the bass as described at the top of thread.
Mic cable >
Yamaha 10/2 mixer >
ART Tube EQ, Gains set for 'Unity' >
Crest FA1201 power amp >
Markbass TVR 210 cab (8 ohms, 400 watts)
Do I stop feedback by:
1) Lowering the gain at the mixer's Trim control?
2) Treating the mic at the bass' top somehow?
3) EQ?
4) Is my power amp too much?
4) Should I just get farther from the amp/cab? I'm in a small space, and maybe it's a logistics issue.
I also have a Sennheiser 'Pro-Fi Power' mic, which is a dynamic that looks like Elvis might have used in Las Vegas! And a couple LDCs: A Studio Projects B-3 and an Audio-Technica AT4033a.
AND there's an old Radio-Shack PZM mic (a Crown 'second') which might be interesting to slick inside the bass...
I'm listening! Thanks.
You mean you showed up at a gig without trying it out first? Chingar, hombre, what were you thinking! Get the gear nailed down so the music works on the fly, not vice-versa. You owe that to your band and to your audience.
Lecture over.
Generally, feedback tends to happen because the mic is getting too good a look at the speaker. Start there big-time. After that:
a) My amp is 100 Watt into 8 Ohms and I rarely use all of it. From my perspective, yes, you're packing a lot more power than you need. If you're coming anywhere near to using all of it, no wonder you're feeding back -- turn it down, man!
b) Moving forward, yeah, you need to lower gain somewhere and probably that means more than one somewhere. Set the channel trim by thwanging a low E and making sure the channel doesn't clip. Then try setting the channel volume on the 10/2 between 10:00 and 11:00. Then keep the master faders way down -- just the minimum gain you need to project your sound off the stage.
c) Yeah, of course you can eliminate feeback by adjusting EQ but the answer is completely situational. (You could try the LF roll-off on the channel if you can get a realistic sound with the cut engaged.)
The bottom line is that you're aiming for a natural sound at a reasonable volume. My advice is to start with the former and adjust the latter or else you're just throwing sonic manure through a fan. Get a good sound together even if it's too soft for the situation THEN figure out what you need to do to achieve the desired level of volume.
Happy hunting & report back please.
Lecture over.
Generally, feedback tends to happen because the mic is getting too good a look at the speaker. Start there big-time. After that:
a) My amp is 100 Watt into 8 Ohms and I rarely use all of it. From my perspective, yes, you're packing a lot more power than you need. If you're coming anywhere near to using all of it, no wonder you're feeding back -- turn it down, man!
b) Moving forward, yeah, you need to lower gain somewhere and probably that means more than one somewhere. Set the channel trim by thwanging a low E and making sure the channel doesn't clip. Then try setting the channel volume on the 10/2 between 10:00 and 11:00. Then keep the master faders way down -- just the minimum gain you need to project your sound off the stage.
c) Yeah, of course you can eliminate feeback by adjusting EQ but the answer is completely situational. (You could try the LF roll-off on the channel if you can get a realistic sound with the cut engaged.)
The bottom line is that you're aiming for a natural sound at a reasonable volume. My advice is to start with the former and adjust the latter or else you're just throwing sonic manure through a fan. Get a good sound together even if it's too soft for the situation THEN figure out what you need to do to achieve the desired level of volume.
Happy hunting & report back please.
