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Double Bass Poor Man's Mic Setup - SM-57 & Four Elastics

#41
This trial was done at home, in the solitude (safety) of my own basement. I may be a fool (I am a fool), but I would never show up at a gig without having my rig together. This is entirely new to me!

I do see that my rig is way overpowered- it's just what I happen to have is all. I generally play a 'plank'. For the upright I am sort of looking at a 50w Yorkville combo at a local music store.

Anyhow I'll run back over the gain structure later this evening, and will post back tonight or tomorrow evening.

Right, get a sound first, then amplify- got that.

Thanks for your time, talk to you again soon here.
 
#42
Try the Raven Labs blender to mix the mic and pickup, then run it into a small amp. With the mic, you have to be careful about too many low lows (feedback=whhhooooooooOOOOOM) and too many high highs (feedback =squeeeeEEEEE). I've found that in higher volume situations, it really helps to dampen the afterlength of the strings, and to make sure that your speaker isn't pointing directly at the bass/mic - even putting it up on a chair and angling it up can help a lot. Remember that when blending, the mic is really there to add some "air" to the sound, and I always find that I need less of it than I think.
 
#43
Senor Bassy,
If I read your signal chain correctly - you're going through a mixer *and* the ART preamp -? If that's the case, you're preamping twice, which is doing nothing constructive other than adding noise and so increasing the chance for feedback. I'd try cutting one or the other out of the mix.
 
#44
Count Bassie said:
This trial was done at home, in the solitude (safety) of my own basement. I may be a fool (I am a fool), but I would never show up at a gig without having my rig together. This is entirely new to me!
Click to expand...
OK. Sorry; please accept my apology.

I do see that my rig is way overpowered- it's just what I happen to have is all. I generally play a 'plank'. For the upright I am sort of looking at a 50w Yorkville combo at a local music store.
Click to expand...
That, on the other hand, will almost certainly be "too small." 100W is minimal-useful. 200W into 8 is plenty. 300W into 8 is lots. More is more . . . if you need something that loud you'll be going through a PA anyway.

The punch line is I suspect you WILL be able to produce a useful DB sound from your current rig. It won't sound like DB-audiophile gear but your band and audience will be able to benefit from DB sound.

The real key avoiding feedback is all about placement of the bass and speaker. In your basement, if you're facing the speaker with a mic on the bass it's gonna feed back, period. Just start from the bottom and take it slow.

Ditto what Mr. Moles said. Less is best, at least at the start. Tubes are not necessarily your friends in the DB world either.

Thanks for your time, talk to you again soon here.
Click to expand...
De nada. All I did is yell at somebody who didn't deserve it.
 
#45
No worries at all for anything Sam- I appreciate the help here.

I am walking with an eye out for a pickup, meanwhile I'll try backing off on the lows and highs with the mic; and I get the "air" comment as concerns the mic's role in amping the UB. I'll also try pre-amping with only the mixer or the EQ box.

Just a note here, I'm keeping the ART EQ at 'unity gain'- i.e., the volume coming out of it is the same when in 'By-pass' as when it's 'On'. Nonetheless I suppose that two gain stages are not better than one, certainly in this more sensitive context. I'm with the 'less is more school' anyway. The tube EQ is pretty cool for electric though.

I do have an old Peavey Mark IV head around, which'll give up 210 watts into 4 ohms. I also have an Avatar 210, 4 ohms, which I'm getting returned to me. Would you guys say this small Peavey/Avatar rig is a better amp for this?

Thanks guys, for the help- I'll be back!
 
#46
OOhhhhhhhh.........ART *EQ*.........

Heck, I partially take back what I said then. I was thinking of the ART Tube MP (which I just picked up at the beginning of the week)...thought you were somehow using it as a mic pre after the mic pre in the mixer. Duh. Although, it still would be adding noise and the Less-Is-More theory probably still applies.

Also - I was using the newer Yorkville 50w combo for a bit. It's a not bad sounding amp, for the size. It was alright for that low level, touch of presence thing but ultimately I needed something bigger, even for something like a busy night at a restaurant gig. I also thought the eq sounded 'weird'. Phasey, or something. Not something I've really heard before, and not the sort of thing I'd expect from a Yorkville amp. The 100w might be worth checking out, but then you've got a 15" speaker to deal with.

I traded mine in for a 2x8 Eden Nemesis which has been quite faithfully kicking butt.
 
#48
Chris Fitzgerald said:
With the mic, you have to be careful about too many low lows (feedback=whhhooooooooOOOOOM) and too many high highs (feedback =squeeeeEEEEE).
Click to expand...
Count Bassie said:
I am walking with an eye out for a pickup, meanwhile I'll try backing off on the lows and highs with the mic; and I get the "air" comment as concerns the mic's role in amping the UB.
Click to expand...
Oddly I found that cutting the mids with my Solstice preamp was more effective at reducing mic squee than the hi EQ. Don't know why. Of course I didn't like what cutting the mids did to my sound.

Yes, do keep us posted please.
 
#49
This is a great idea. I borrowed my friends 57 and tried it but I'm having trouble getting a good signal out of it. I'm running it though a fishman B2 right now and that bust the signal a little but not enough. I thought it might be the mic but he has never had any trouble with it. Does anyone have any ideas about whats going on and how to fix it?
 
#50
Time for this thread to get a bump...

I rarely need to play amplified and have always got by with a mic on a stand up till now. Playing with a group working up some classic rock and originals for an outdoor show next month with everyone else plugged in and me needing some freedom to move around. Fortunately I remembered this thread and in the time it takes to do a search and get some rubber bands I'm set. Not too much feedback in the jam shed (literally 10x10 shed) standing 5 feet from the PA speakers as long if I keep the back of the bass to them ...it should be fine onstage (but yes, i'll also check that out in advance)

Playing unplugged I noticed the mic vibrates a bit especially playing around G on the E string. The sound from this wasn't noticeable at all when plugged in, but I'm going to experiment with smaller rubber bands (more tension) and positioning and also put a little chunk of foam rubber between mic and bridge as all that vibration can't be doing anything good for the mic.
 
#51
I've been meaning to post my setup for awhile. I have a Sennheiser e609 Silver. I took some 1/2" foam cut to about 3" x 16" and coiled it up. That fits nicely between the legs of my bridge. The 609 then slips into the coil as close or as far away as I want. It works well and never rattles or comes loose. I don't transport the bass with the mic installed but I do leave the foam there. And no, it doesn't interfere with the vibrating of the top.
 

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#52
jallenbass said:
I've been meaning to post my setup for awhile. I have a Sennheiser e609 Silver. I took some 1/2" foam cut to about 3" x 16" and coiled it up. That fits nicely between the legs of my bridge. The 609 then slips into the coil as close or as far away as I want. It works well and never rattles or comes loose. I don't transport the bass with the mic installed but I do leave the foam there. And no, it doesn't interfere with the vibrating of the top.
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How do you like that mic? I'd like a complete report.
 
#55
Count Bassie said:
You know, I'm a novice upright player and have to stand back from all you veterans. I know only the most essential- even most basic, intuitive knowledge of all this soft-science around playing such a picayune acoustic instrument as the venerable "Doghouse". But that Sennheiser mic and it's mounting-jig looks like 'the business'! Great improvement on a good idea: Whatever mic you decide to use, the foam coiled under the bridge appears to be a good low-impact mount for a mic- up against the resonating body of the bass. Can't see this being a problem to the live situation, considering all the factors that go into sound for live performance, right?

You are of course, going to give Uncletoad here a "complete report", yes? :p !!!

I'll explain myself at this point: I am always having to use "what I have" and make it work, although I'm an electric player primarily (with a capital "P")! You guys are acoustic players, and are even more on the edge in this way- you have fewer ways to get it right! So, why would you wait for a "report" on how it works? Why aren't you interested folk rather posting on your own findings? Are you truly into this music trip, or are you just posting because you live in your mom's basement and have nothing better to do? Report?? :D What's your report, Uncletoad???

I know. I'm going to get myself jammed and banned from this forum. Uncletoad is probably some badass famous dude and I have defamed him with heinous abandon and a wreckless hand. But this is sort of an "exclusive" forum here on TB, and I get the impression that some of the population just wants to be percieved as such. Come on, are you guys players, or what? I know this forum is overcrowded with happening players... so you'll know what I mean when I say:

Try the damn thing for yourself!! I can see the need for communication, but I can't see making oneself an "authority figure" to people who will never come to actually know you. Unless you are bereft of any other venue... enter: Mom's basement...
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Is this a joke? One of the main reasons this forum exists is so that people can share their experiences with others. Nobody has given more gear reports on this forum than the Toad. Never mind that he can't spell "report" - his reviews are spot on with my experience. The reason that someone might want a report is that mics are expensive. What am I missing here? Is this thing on?
 
#56
Count Bassie said:
You know, I'm a novice upright player and have to stand back from all you veterans. I know only the most essential- even most basic, intuitive knowledge of all this soft-science around playing such a picayune acoustic instrument as the venerable "Doghouse". But that Sennheiser mic and it's mounting-jig looks like 'the business'! Great improvement on a good idea: Whatever mic you decide to use, the foam coiled under the bridge appears to be a good low-impact mount for a mic- up against the resonating body of the bass. Can't see this being a problem to the live situation, considering all the factors that go into sound for live performance, right?

You are of course, going to give Uncletoad here a "complete report", yes? :p !!!

I'll explain myself at this point: I am always having to use "what I have" and make it work, although I'm an electric player primarily (with a capital "P")! You guys are acoustic players, and are even more on the edge in this way- you have fewer ways to get it right! So, why would you wait for a "report" on how it works? Why aren't you interested folk rather posting on your own findings? Are you truly into this music trip, or are you just posting because you live in your mom's basement and have nothing better to do? Report?? :D What's your report, Uncletoad???

I know. I'm going to get myself jammed and banned from this forum. Uncletoad is probably some badass famous dude and I have defamed him with heinous abandon and a wreckless hand. But this is sort of an "exclusive" forum here on TB, and I get the impression that some of the population just wants to be percieved as such. Come on, are you guys players, or what? I know this forum is overcrowded with happening players... so you'll know what I mean when I say:

Try the damn thing for yourself!! I can see the need for communication, but I can't see making oneself an "authority figure" to people who will never come to actually know you. Unless you are bereft of any other venue... enter: Mom's basement...

Anyone else tried this jig? Looks like the stanking bad-arse rig to me.

Beyond all my bashing, thanks for everything.
Click to expand...

I'm not sure what the inferiority complex or the trollish outburst is about... did you forget to take some kind of medicine or something?

-J
 
#57
A complete report? Hmm...I don't have much experience with using a mic live so my complete report will be somewhat limited. What I usually do is use the mic through the PA with all of the lows rolled off just to put some of the sound of the body out there. I always play with an amp so that's where the lows come from but the mic amplifies the tone. I imagine there are mics out there that produce a more accurate tone but for $109 I'm pretty happy with the way it sounds. It's clear and clean and, to my ears, the sound is not hyped in any way. A couple of things that I have yet to try are: 1) Using the mic-> PA as the only souce of amplification and 2) plugging it into my home recording setup to hear how it records. Stay tuned.
 
#60
Count Bassie said:
The notification came to my email. Look at my earlier posts- I'm no troll. And why the smart remarks? See, no one can resist the urge to 'give a poke' when it surfaces...
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You are completely correct. It was a "poke" at what I thought was a pretty inflammitory rant.

Would you insert yourself into a discussion on a street corner because you thought someone had an unreasonable request? What about in line at a grocery store? The context is how well mics work strapped to a double bass. How, exactly, is UT's request beyond the scope of this discussion?

If your issue is with the seemingly direct request for information, I think you could have stated that in a MUCH less trollish manner.

The reason I take offense is that it sounds like you're looking for a fight.

If you're not then I apologize.

-J
 

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