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Post Count?
- Thread starter mike_v_s
- Start date
Yes, but this side of the forum is not a living Viagra ad, thankfully.
I kid! I kid! I wish I had the time or resources to play DB. Maybe once I do I'll take my wisecracking over there.
Yeah, they seem like nice guys but we're the bad boys of TB.
Oh, there's plenty of people that can't add much to the other forums, but that doesn't stop them. I mean, I could dump any number of +1's on top of any praise the G&L L-2000 gets, but that wouldn't be adding much (although apparently more than anything that can be done here
). Other areas.....let's see, my equipment list hasn't varied like other's here, so that limits my ability to answer any questions that rise. I pop in the occassional Peavey T-Max thread, but that amp's 10 years old and 90% of the product questions in Amps is for new-to-market stuff. Seen any threads on Nahas cabinets in the last year (or more)? The most recent was started in the summer of 2008 and if you're looking for the one prior to that it was posted in 2005...by you. I have a Bag End and I offer my experience here and there, but it's an older 70's model with a different driver, so (again) not many people asking. I just bought Mike Dimin's EA Micro300, but this site wrote that head off 2 months after introduction.
My lone effect pedal at the moment has about 5 posts in all of the Effects Forum. The most recent question about it was in March of this year. Again, not able to help. Other forums: I considered changing out a pickup once. I use strings, but I've never been one to go apepoopie over them. I gave some advice in the recording forum about a year ago, but there are much better folks for that there.
And that's where most of the others end up: there are better resources than me (and here I thought this post might be cathartic). I started coming here through another forum and got to know a few people. At the time, I played gear that most either didn't want or didn't want to know about, and I'm still there. So, I searched when I had a question, offered an answer here and there, and even posted a "shootout" thread where I compared the SWR Workingman's 2x12 with the Accugroove MiniWhappo (two more REAL popular cabinets).
So you see, it's not a matter of "getting comfortable" with the site, it's a matter of knowing what kind of questions are asked and which ones you can offer substantive advice on. That's something ALL of the forums need a little help with.
I think a fair argument can be made that most of what's in the other forums isn't helpful in a musical context. Right now there are 5 "club" threads and a "show pretty pictures of _______" on the first page of Basses. There's also a "show off your knobs" thread. I guess it all depends on what you think constitutes "helpful in a musical context".
Mike
Bryan R. Tyler
TalkBass: Usurping My Practice Time Since 2002
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It's that kind of attitude that keeps you from becoming a moderator, Mike
Even without gear experience, there's a lot that players can offer in the non-gear forums like Technique, G.I., Band Management, etc. The club threads can actually be very helpful. I'm not a fan of the whole "club" thing, but they do offer a concentrated amount of knowledgeable people who are avid about the product that club is for, so any questions posted in those threads usually get faster answers. Even posting pictures of basses is still music-related in a fashion. I bought my first Elrick based solely on the images I saw of it here years ago. Break it down to its simplest form- if you deleted all the forums except Basses or any of the other musical subforums, would TalkBass still go on as a musician's website with lots of great musical info? Yes. Would it be if OT was the only forum there? No.
Even without gear experience, there's a lot that players can offer in the non-gear forums like Technique, G.I., Band Management, etc. The club threads can actually be very helpful. I'm not a fan of the whole "club" thing, but they do offer a concentrated amount of knowledgeable people who are avid about the product that club is for, so any questions posted in those threads usually get faster answers. Even posting pictures of basses is still music-related in a fashion. I bought my first Elrick based solely on the images I saw of it here years ago. Break it down to its simplest form- if you deleted all the forums except Basses or any of the other musical subforums, would TalkBass still go on as a musician's website with lots of great musical info? Yes. Would it be if OT was the only forum there? No.
john turner
You don't want to do that. Trust me.
Oh, there's plenty of people that can't add much to the other forums, but that doesn't stop them. I mean, I could dump any number of +1's on top of any praise the G&L L-2000 gets, but that wouldn't be adding much (although apparently more than anything that can be done here
Other areas.....let's see, my equipment list hasn't varied like other's here, so that limits my ability to answer any questions that rise. I pop in the occassional Peavey T-Max thread, but that amp's 10 years old and 90% of the product questions in Amps is for new-to-market stuff. Seen any threads on Nahas cabinets in the last year (or more)? The most recent was started in the summer of 2008 and if you're looking for the one prior to that it was posted in 2005...by you. I have a Bag End and I offer my experience here and there, but it's an older 70's model with a different driver, so (again) not many people asking. I just bought Mike Dimin's EA Micro300, but this site wrote that head off 2 months after introduction.
My lone effect pedal at the moment has about 5 posts in all of the Effects Forum. The most recent question about it was in March of this year. Again, not able to help. Other forums: I considered changing out a pickup once. I use strings, but I've never been one to go apepoopie over them. I gave some advice in the recording forum about a year ago, but there are much better folks for that there.
And that's where most of the others end up: there are better resources than me (and here I thought this post might be cathartic). I started coming here through another forum and got to know a few people. At the time, I played gear that most either didn't want or didn't want to know about, and I'm still there. So, I searched when I had a question, offered an answer here and there, and even posted a "shootout" thread where I compared the SWR Workingman's 2x12 with the Accugroove MiniWhappo (two more REAL popular cabinets).
So you see, it's not a matter of "getting comfortable" with the site, it's a matter of knowing what kind of questions are asked and which ones you can offer substantive advice on. That's something ALL of the forums need a little help with.
so, you're saying that you have no questions about bass, either music or instrument related, that you've wanted to ask? really? not curious about anything?
there have been some fantastic discussions that started with fairly innocent, and on-the-face seemingly simple, questions, in all the music-related subforums.
Sorry, people seem to take the presentation of opinion better when it's coupled with a compliment....I love you. I'm quite sure this site will be called TalkMandolin and set ablaze before anyone gives that the go-ahead.It's that kind of attitude that keeps you from becoming a moderator, Mike
The bottom line is that it would still be a group of bassists. Like I said, matter of perception.
I'm not sure where I said that, but obviously it's been inferred, so I'll clarify. No, that's not what I'm saying. I was specifically responding to the (paraphrased) "until they're comfortable with TB" posted by Mr. Tyler. I AM comfortable with TB. Comfortable enough that I know what I can offer and actively seek to answer it. I'm also aware that it's the sort of information that isn't really asked on a daily, or even weekly basis.
As to your question specifically: I've both asked and answered a number of questions here over the years. I usually surf the Basses, Amps and old G&L forum first before going to OT. If there's anything I'm able to tag, I do it.
This would be one of them, I think, it just happened to fall outside of the music-related subforums.
Mike
john turner
You don't want to do that. Trust me.
i was only attempting to imply that there's a broad spectrum of potential contribution you could make beyond just answering questions.
and i know that there have been great non-musical discussions in OT, and i agree this is one of them. tbh, that fact is sorta why i've been saying what i'm saying.
and i know that there have been great non-musical discussions in OT, and i agree this is one of them. tbh, that fact is sorta why i've been saying what i'm saying.
If the implication was that a person could spark a good discussion by asking questions in those forums, I missed that, but agree. Maybe I'm a simpleton, but I don't really ask a whole lot. When I do it is almost always restricted to gear and even then it's after a fairly exhaustive search. The likelihood that someone has compared an out-of-production Nahas Bag End copy to see how it compared to a 1970's Bag End with the same driver seemed pretty low, especially when there wasn't a consesus on how the same 70's BE compared to a more recent BE. In the end I just bought the Nahas.
Maybe i'm an ***, but I'm not going to start a thread that explains that, should someone else have the same question, the BE seems to sound a bit brighter with the predominant midrange bump seeming a bit higher despite having a larger port on the back by about 1/2 inch, not to mention a few other differences. It would drop directly to page 6 behind the (insert new product here) is awesome/sucks!!! threads. I will, however, PM that information to someone should it come up.
Agreed.
Mike
Well.... thats good. Otherwise you would most likely be playing a "Keytar" and have even less to contribute
:scowl:Its really late
I'm with Mike and his blimp on this one. I've been trying to remain quiet, simply because my worthless posts here in this worthless forum have somehow put me on a very short leash for the next year. Still, I must say this. The bottom line is that I contribute my gold membership dues on this site because I "support" the community that has developed here. As much as everyone likes to refer to OT as the red headed cousin of the other more bass and music oriented subforums, TB would not be TB (a tight knit community) without OT. It would be a sleepy, drive by and post joint where not very many people would stick around long enough to cough up dues. To me OT is the glue that holds us all together as we plod along at various stages of our musical adventures. I could just as easily lurk on this site with a free membership and get all the technical information I have needed, will need, and will ever contribute.
Membership affords me access to the what? The lobby, classifieds, infraction points, and an avatar? The Lobby, no offense, is not only the place threads go to die, but it's a slow agonizing death akin to being gummed by a bunch of old toothless goats and sheep bleating back and forth about religion versus science. To each his own, but I just don't have time for that. So I guess that leaves me the classifieds. Well, I'm much more of a buyer than I am a seller when it comes to bass gear, because I've been playing for around 20 years now, making my purchases in this market concise and focused, with little chance for turnover. I generally buy lower end basses (less than 2k) and hold onto them. Same goes for pedals, preamps, poweramps, cabs and everything else. So the classifieds are something I only go to when I have some money in my pocket (which lately is never).
So now I'm left to wonder, why did I cough up the cash for membership? Quite frankly, it's because of the bassists I mingle with here in OT. We've laughed at each other, supported each other when were hit with the harder sides of life, and we've sent beers to each other when we make stupid bets with each other. (Actually, you send them to me when you make stupid bets, and I just drink them). So now this worthless post thing is levied, and it's levied against not only the heartbeat of TB, but I would venture to say that it's levied against the very thing that keeps people supporting this site - it's sense of community. It's also a revenue stream, because I can't imagine that I'm so much of an original thinker that I'm the only one who coughed up support because of OT. So to me this is all very mean, and comes across as a kind of knee jerk reaction. I can't help but wonder if someone got miffed on some backroom secret mod thread and this is what came out of it. I'll probably get banned again soon, or I'll probably just let my membership fade, whichever comes first. Since this is where I post 90% of the time, then that means this site has just been devalued down to 2 dollars to me. I might as well put that towards a 40 oz. and be done with it. I'm not running this party, I'm just drinking the beer, but if you don't want my contribution to the keg, then I can take a hint. It wouldn't be the first time I wasn't welcome.
Membership affords me access to the what? The lobby, classifieds, infraction points, and an avatar? The Lobby, no offense, is not only the place threads go to die, but it's a slow agonizing death akin to being gummed by a bunch of old toothless goats and sheep bleating back and forth about religion versus science. To each his own, but I just don't have time for that. So I guess that leaves me the classifieds. Well, I'm much more of a buyer than I am a seller when it comes to bass gear, because I've been playing for around 20 years now, making my purchases in this market concise and focused, with little chance for turnover. I generally buy lower end basses (less than 2k) and hold onto them. Same goes for pedals, preamps, poweramps, cabs and everything else. So the classifieds are something I only go to when I have some money in my pocket (which lately is never).
So now I'm left to wonder, why did I cough up the cash for membership? Quite frankly, it's because of the bassists I mingle with here in OT. We've laughed at each other, supported each other when were hit with the harder sides of life, and we've sent beers to each other when we make stupid bets with each other. (Actually, you send them to me when you make stupid bets, and I just drink them). So now this worthless post thing is levied, and it's levied against not only the heartbeat of TB, but I would venture to say that it's levied against the very thing that keeps people supporting this site - it's sense of community. It's also a revenue stream, because I can't imagine that I'm so much of an original thinker that I'm the only one who coughed up support because of OT. So to me this is all very mean, and comes across as a kind of knee jerk reaction. I can't help but wonder if someone got miffed on some backroom secret mod thread and this is what came out of it. I'll probably get banned again soon, or I'll probably just let my membership fade, whichever comes first. Since this is where I post 90% of the time, then that means this site has just been devalued down to 2 dollars to me. I might as well put that towards a 40 oz. and be done with it. I'm not running this party, I'm just drinking the beer, but if you don't want my contribution to the keg, then I can take a hint. It wouldn't be the first time I wasn't welcome.
wow Maki...
So sour all of a sudden?
I don't understand this talk about how a supporting membership fits into all of this new rule.
(But you are very clear about how you feel about this.)
I became a supporting member about 4 months after I joined.
What good did it for me?
Classifieds aren't that useful to me, being non-US. And maybe the same as you, I don't need to sell much.
Lobby... I agree with you on that 100%.
The reason I became a supporting member is because I felt I was becoming part of the community.
Got a lot of useful information from members here, and generally satisfied with how this forum is run.
So I decided to support TB.
I don't see how my post count fits into any of this.
Some people (like you for example) say they don't care about post count, and don't disagree with the new rule per sé,
but you got some beef with the principle behind this.
So... you felt your posts were worth more when they were added to a counter?
The content and quality of your posts is still the same, and is what people use to form their opinion of you as a fellow TB-member.
I don't understand what you expect you got (should get) out of it when you pay for a supporting membership.
So sour all of a sudden?
I don't understand this talk about how a supporting membership fits into all of this new rule.
(But you are very clear about how you feel about this.)
I became a supporting member about 4 months after I joined.
What good did it for me?
Classifieds aren't that useful to me, being non-US. And maybe the same as you, I don't need to sell much.
Lobby... I agree with you on that 100%.
The reason I became a supporting member is because I felt I was becoming part of the community.
Got a lot of useful information from members here, and generally satisfied with how this forum is run.
So I decided to support TB.
I don't see how my post count fits into any of this.
Some people (like you for example) say they don't care about post count, and don't disagree with the new rule per sé,
but you got some beef with the principle behind this.
So... you felt your posts were worth more when they were added to a counter?
The content and quality of your posts is still the same, and is what people use to form their opinion of you as a fellow TB-member.
I don't understand what you expect you got (should get) out of it when you pay for a supporting membership.
Actually, I don't think this discussion is about post counts at all - it is about the recent sticky implying that OT is worth less than other forums and is only barely-tolerated and really is considered as a "waste of space"...?
I can see both sides of this - so there are threads where genuine conversation is going on between fellow bass players, that is very valuable to bind the community together.
But then there are also threads which just seem to be what I call " lists" - where there is no genuine conversation or interaction - just seems to be people trying to generate as many posts as possible - why we don't know, but the assumption made seems to have been to increase post counts..?
So - my view is that genuine conversation is valuable - whereas threads that have no or very limited interaction are a waste of space and to be disouraged - but I see no way to objectively differentiate and then that puts the burden of deciding on Mods.... who are only human..?
I can see both sides of this - so there are threads where genuine conversation is going on between fellow bass players, that is very valuable to bind the community together.
But then there are also threads which just seem to be what I call " lists" - where there is no genuine conversation or interaction - just seems to be people trying to generate as many posts as possible - why we don't know, but the assumption made seems to have been to increase post counts..?
So - my view is that genuine conversation is valuable - whereas threads that have no or very limited interaction are a waste of space and to be disouraged - but I see no way to objectively differentiate and then that puts the burden of deciding on Mods.... who are only human..?
I don't feel like it's considered "a waste of space" by this new measure.
If it really is considered a waste of bandwith harsher actions could be taken.
Off Topic only for supporting members maybe? (I know radical decision and discussed in the Lobby already with many various opinions.)
More deletion of non-active Off Topic threads. Say last post in thread 6 months ago so automatic deletion for sake of bandwith.
... all drastic and not popular I assume...
Hey, good thing I don't run this place. And I wouldn't want to, as I imagine it takes a lot of work to keep TB running... and running well.
If it really is considered a waste of bandwith harsher actions could be taken.
Off Topic only for supporting members maybe? (I know radical decision and discussed in the Lobby already with many various opinions.)
More deletion of non-active Off Topic threads. Say last post in thread 6 months ago so automatic deletion for sake of bandwith.
... all drastic and not popular I assume...
Hey, good thing I don't run this place.
And I wouldn't want to, as I imagine it takes a lot of work to keep TB running... and running well.
Bingo, it seems to me that the adverse reaction isn't to the message itself, but the way its been expressed. There is no doubt that the way its been written creates the impression (intentional or not) that OT and Lobby are considered less valuable to TB than the other forums. Whether thats what those in charge actually believe is for them to speak to. However, I can see why some people have that impression.
I guess it all depends on ones point of view. To me, the whole DB side of the forum is more worthless than BG OT. But, I doubt everyone agrees with me!
When alls said and done, the proof is in the pudding. Will this step, which seems to be aimed at "increasing the value of TB content" actually result in a reduction in OT posts and an increase in "value add" posts? That should be measurable. Presumably if it has no effect, it wouldn't be that big of a deal to change back to the way it was and try something else to increase the "value add" posts. If I could proffer a suggestion; the "bassists with beards club" seems somewhat "OT"
I've got to admit that when I come to TB, OT is one of the first forums I visit. Yeah, not music related most of the time, but it's fun. I can see, considering the number of snarky and nearly flame level of posts in some threads (as well as the debate threads that discuss the same subjects over and over again - well, that's true on most of the forums, neh?) that the mods must sometimes get tired of having to watch over OT so closely. That being said, I've tended to get more of a 'feel' for many of the people who are active on TB from their posts in OT than their posts elsewhere. This place also lets me express my own opinions on matters, to people who care enough about those topics to reply back, etc. I don't always have access to that sort of feedback elsewhere in my life, as many of my friends don't share all of my interests.
I recently became a supporting member because I've found TB to be so helpful over the year and a half or so I've been a member, and I want to help insure it continues to exist. Quite frankly, I don't give a hoot about post counts, don't normally check my own, don't check those of others. I find the join date of more interest, but often I don't check that, either. Literacy / writing ability matters more (but I check location before I make any opinions; someone who isn't using English all that well but whose location is somewhere like Asia - which means English is probably a second language - well, it's understandable if their English isn't as good as those who have it as their first language) in my personal opinion. I'm in the crowd who'd just as soon see post counts disappear all together. It doesn't really matter to me, one way or another.
I suspect that what gets folks upset about the 'no OT posts count towards post counts' is that they percieve a certain amount of disrespect aimed at OT in this case...
I recently became a supporting member because I've found TB to be so helpful over the year and a half or so I've been a member, and I want to help insure it continues to exist. Quite frankly, I don't give a hoot about post counts, don't normally check my own, don't check those of others. I find the join date of more interest, but often I don't check that, either. Literacy / writing ability matters more (but I check location before I make any opinions; someone who isn't using English all that well but whose location is somewhere like Asia - which means English is probably a second language - well, it's understandable if their English isn't as good as those who have it as their first language) in my personal opinion. I'm in the crowd who'd just as soon see post counts disappear all together. It doesn't really matter to me, one way or another.
I suspect that what gets folks upset about the 'no OT posts count towards post counts' is that they percieve a certain amount of disrespect aimed at OT in this case...
I totally agree with Maki on all counts. It's more principle than anything else. I really don't care about my post count, but to know any posts I make in certain forums are, on some level, essentially ignored doesn't sit well with me.
As has been said, I could get and/or give the same amount of information from this site whether I opt to pay for my membership or not. Being that I haven't actively gigged in over a year now (not by choice
), I am not in the subforums that are actually and apparently worth anything to the site administration as much as I once was. Hopefully I will find a worthwhile gig in the near future and that will change. For now, however, I fall back on the camaraderie and welcome interactions afforded in TB OT amongst other bass players. Being that such contributions are, at least on some level, deemed worthless to the administration, I see very little reason to continue contributing to the site. Granted, my membership doesn't expire for almost a year, and I may change my mind by then, this is my feeling at this point.
It's nice to know that well thought out posts by Maki (whether you agree with what he says or not) are less meaningful than the "+1"s, "which bass for metal", "fingers or pick" or any other beaten to death and downright ridiculous thing posted in the "real" subforums.
As has been said, I could get and/or give the same amount of information from this site whether I opt to pay for my membership or not. Being that I haven't actively gigged in over a year now (not by choice
), I am not in the subforums that are actually and apparently worth anything to the site administration as much as I once was. Hopefully I will find a worthwhile gig in the near future and that will change. For now, however, I fall back on the camaraderie and welcome interactions afforded in TB OT amongst other bass players. Being that such contributions are, at least on some level, deemed worthless to the administration, I see very little reason to continue contributing to the site. Granted, my membership doesn't expire for almost a year, and I may change my mind by then, this is my feeling at this point.It's nice to know that well thought out posts by Maki (whether you agree with what he says or not) are less meaningful than the "+1"s, "which bass for metal", "fingers or pick" or any other beaten to death and downright ridiculous thing posted in the "real" subforums.
Yeah, that's some deep bassist discussion right there. Good thing the posters in said forum are acknowledged for their in-depth thought and contributions.... If I could proffer a suggestion; the "bassists with beards club" seems somewhat "OT"
I'm going to go throw away my razor now.
While I realize TB isn't a democracy, it would be nice to know if this discussion is being taken under advisement by the powers-that-be, or if it's one of those "it's my bat and ball" kind of issues.
I don't think Paul has time to read every thread these days - but I'm sure he listens to his Moderators, who are well- represented here...?
