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Post Your Favorite "Trick Downbeat" Tunes

I've heard these two tunes so many times I can't not hear them correctly anymore...but the first few times I listened to them I always got caught off guard!



...especially this one. I remember being at a party with a half dozen other Berklee undergrads in 1980 or '81 and the Drinking Game consisted of trying to predict where the downbeat of this tune was! We were hammered...and no one got it right




And this one isn't so much Where's The Downbeat? as it is What's The Groove Gonna Be? But I just love how the intro sets up one expectation, and then as soon as the melody enters you're like "What the...?!?!?! I certainly wasn't expecting that!"

 
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Both great songs, though it's a little different trick. The drummer isn't using a normal backbeat in either (snare on 2 & 4). In the Cars tune David Robinson has been playing the backbeat the whole song up to that point and moves the snare to 1 & 3 for those few measures. It's a super cool effect!

Here's something similar - check out what Will Calhoun does at 1:29 of "Time's Up." The song is already intense to a fever pitch from the first note, then under the guitar solo Calhoun changes up the snare pattern by moving the note that would usually be at "2" to a sixteenth note earlier. Vernon Reid plays way above it with a middle-eastern sounding guitar solo that's almost peaceful by comparison to everything else going on in the song. I love this song.

 
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Both great songs, though it's a little different trick. The drummer isn't using a normal backbeat in either (snare on 2 & 4). In the Cars tune David Robinson has been playing the backbeat the whole song up to that point and moves the snare to 1 & 3 for those few measures. It's a super cool effect!

Here's something similar - check out what Will Calhoun does at 1:29 of "Time's Up." The song is already intense to a fever pitch from the first note, then under the guitar solo Calhoun changes up the snare pattern by moving the note that would usually be at "2" to a sixteenth note earlier. Vernon Reid plays way above it with a middle-eastern sounding guitar solo that's almost peaceful by comparison to everything else going on in the song. I love this song.




You had me at Will Calhoun... Living color is one of my faves! Muzz Skillings as well. And this disc is simply an utterly, and criminally, underrated. Good call! They play wit time a ton.
 
I've heard these two tunes so many times I can't not hear them correctly anymore...but the first few times I listened to them I always got caught off guard!



...especially this one. I remember being at a party with a half dozen other Berklee undergrads in 1980 or '81 and the Drinking Came consisted of trying to predict where the downbeat of this tune was! We were hammered...and no one got it right




And this one isn't so much Where's The Downbeat? as it is What's The Groove Gonna Be? But I just love how the intro sets up one expectation, and then as soon as the melody enters you're like "What the...?!?!?! I certainly wasn't expecting that!"


Wow, first Martino ref I've seen on TB. I remember woodshedding this rec, line games especially on the turntable!
Early heavy use of phasor on the bass on the rec.
 
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I found another. "Groove Thing" by BHTM.

Starts out with a cool bass groove and you feel sure where one is. The drummer teases it with the hi-hat a little to pull you all the way in. But when the drums come in completely, one turns out to be an eighth note earlier than you thought.

 
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Semi-somewhat germane: This thread reminded me of a question a buddy raised way back when we were in high school, late 1970s, we're listening to King Crimson's "Starless" on his car stereo (cassette deck, pretty state-of-the-art for the time) and when the woodblock enters at 5:33 he turns to me and says "I've heard this tune a million times and I still can't figure out where those woodblock hits are going to land."



Well, several years later -- after I'd gotten turned on to the next incarnation of King Crimson's embrace of polymeter -- I realized that what the woodblock was doing at 5:33 in "Starless" was embarassingly obvious: He's just hitting the downbeats of 4/4.

The thing that made it so hard to predict for my buddy (besides the copious amounts of weed...hey, I did say this was in the late 1970s, right?) was that no one else in the band is playing in 4/4! That bass line is playing a 13-beat cycle (alternating measures of 4/4 and 5/8), and the guitar part is...well, to this day I don't have the patience to count what Fripp is doing there. In that context, the woodblock's simple 4/4 downbeats sound positively random!
 
I must be totally missing something. None of these examples have ever tricked me. I just come in on my bass and play the song.
Although Rock & Roll by Led Zeppelin took me some time to figure out where exactly to come in.

There's probably some serious education in this thread for me but I am just not seeing the trick part.
 
The kick drum drives me crazy in this song. I don't know if it is going off at the upbeat or middle beat or 1/2 beat.

A Frank Zappa "doo whop" song done under the fictitious band Rueben and the Jets.

 

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