Power Amp - Crown or other?

[Dave W]

I really like my Crest CA series so far that I got used. I looked at a bunch of new stuff too, and I liked Crown & QSC the best.

is the fan on all the time or does it kick in after awhile? Is it audible? Whisper quiet, annoyingly loud or somewhere in between?

Can someone please tell me what the big deal is about the fan? I'd had a few amps with mini hurricane inducing type fans in them, at not once has it ever been an issue once the band starts playing. Even in a quiet section that only features a clean guitar...

Unless you're playing a really quiet acoustic set, I just can't see it being a problem.

 

[Jools4001]

Agreed^^^^^

Best bang for the buck out there without buying used.
My IPR has seen duty with my bass and with my monitors, and I've never heard the fan run.
The bright blue light isn't everyone's cuppa', though.

Is it just me or is the IPR1600 incapable of running bridged?

From the spec sheet:

Rated Power (2 x 2 ohms) - 800 watts per channel @ 1 kHz at <0.1% T.H.D. both channels driven.
Rated Power (2 x 4 ohms) - 530 watts per channel @ 1 kHz at <0.1% T.H.D. both channels driven.
Rated Power (2 x 8 ohms) - 300 watts per channel @ 1 kHz at <0.1% T.H.D. both channels driven.
Rated Power (1 x 2 ohms) - 1000 watts @ 1 kHz at <0.1% T.H.D.
Rated Power (1 x 4 ohms) - 600 watts @ 1 kHz at <0.1% T.H.D.​

Rated Power (1 x 8 ohms) - 320 watts @ 1 kHz at <0.1% T.H.D.


The 1 x 8 ohms rated power can't be a bridged figure can it? Looks more like it'll produce 2 x 300 watts per channel into an 8 Ohm load, but if you only run one channel the power supply will let you crank another 20 watts out of it?

The Peavey specs and web site don't mention bridging anywhere, which if I'm reading it right and for me at least, makes it a far less attractive proposition than the Crown.

 

[bring the noise]

Will the xls1000 and xls1500 run 4 ohm bridged?

 

[theduke1]

Carvin 1540L 750 per side @ 4 ohm 14lbs

 

[MuzikMan]

I have used the Carvin DCM 1540L for about 2 years now and I am a happy camper. The only thing I wish it had was a high pass filter, but I knew that going in and the price was very good for the available power and weight.

 

[wcriley]

Is it just me or is the IPR1600 incapable of running bridged?
The Peavey specs and web site don't mention bridging anywhere, which if I'm reading it right and for me at least, makes it a far less attractive proposition than the Crown.

The IPR1600 can be bridged. Requires making a special (but simple) cable. Some consider this to be a problem; others don't.

Details have been discussed several times on TB and here: Invalid Link Removed

 

[bobm2112]

I own a SWR Power 750 Power Amp. Besides the thing weighing a ton, I have not had any issues with it.

the SWR is the only PA I have ever owned so I cant compare it to anything else.

 

[Jeffrey Wash]

Can someone please tell me what the big deal is about the fan? I'd had a few amps with mini hurricane inducing type fans in them, at not once has it ever been an issue once the band starts playing. Even in a quiet section that only features a clean guitar...

Unless you're playing a really quiet acoustic set, I just can't see it being a problem.

1 - It's a problem in the studio. Yeah, I can just DI the bass and more often than not I do. But on projects that have the scope to allow for it - budget, time, level of attention to production detail, etc - then I really prefer to mic the bass rig alongside the DI and leave as many options open at mixdown.

For me, part of the whole point of looking at new gear and jonesing for tonal improvement (GASsing!) is the idea of achieving something that's good enough - and maybe even unique enough - to put a mic in front of.

2 - When I put together a new rig (or make a big enough change to an existing one) I will usually set up the rig in a large room or rent a rehearsal space and bang away at it for hours and hours. Listening to a fan running just p***es me off!

3 - Yeah, I agree, onstage with many bands it completely disappears. But not always. If I do this rig right then I'll not only be able to use it in the average pop band setting - the Berg and Aggy 1x12 cabs have a very small stage footprint but together they can get pretty loud - but also in those smaller, more intimate jazzy/folky settings.

 

[Jeffrey Wash]

I have used the Carvin DCM 1540L for about 2 years now and I am a happy camper. The only thing I wish it had was a high pass filter, but I knew that going in and the price was very good for the available power and weight.

Others have mentioned this too and I'm a bit perplexed (often clueless!) What would be the advantage of having a high pass filter?

 

[Dave W]

1 - It's a problem in the studio. Yeah, I can just DI the bass and more often than not I do. But on projects that have the scope to allow for it - budget, time, level of attention to production detail, etc - then I really prefer to mic the bass rig alongside the DI and leave as many options open at mixdown.

So why not just run a longer speaker cable and keep the amp away from the mic? I used to have my cab in the "isolation room" while myself and my amp were sitting in the control room.

I suppose it's not always possible, but there is always a way around it.

 

[wcriley]

1 - It's a problem in the studio. Yeah, I can just DI the bass and more often than not I do. But on projects that have the scope to allow for it - budget, time, level of attention to production detail, etc - then I really prefer to mic the bass rig alongside the DI and leave as many options open at mixdown.

This makes no sense to me.

Wouldn't a fan have to be ungodly loud for a mic, aimed directly at a speaker, to hear it? And even then, it's a simple matter to move the amp to the null side of the mic. Or into a different room.

 

[Blues Bass 2]

Others have mentioned this too and I'm a bit perplexed (often clueless!) What would be the advantage of having a high pass filter?

A high pass filter can be used as a blocker to lows that are below what the speaker can reproduce . It only lets the notes above whatever the filter is set at pass . On the Crown XLS amp the lowest filter is at 50Hz and some think this is too high since some of what a 5 string will do goes below that . I've used the 50Hz filter with my XLS 1000 and didn't think it made that big a difference in the low end so it doesn't bother me but some have said they can hear it . It is a good way to protect your speakers at higher volumes if the low end sounds good to you .

By the way , I like my XLS quite a bit . I thought it was underpowered at first but have changed my mind since , nice amp . I also have not heard the fan . I use mine with an RBI preamp and a VT bass pedal .

 

[Jeffrey Wash]

So why not just run a longer speaker cable and keep the amp away from the mic? I used to have my cab in the "isolation room" while myself and my amp were sitting in the control room.

I suppose it's not always possible, but there is always a way around it.

Point well made and I've done the same. If I end up with an amp that sounds good enough to warrant the extra hassle then sure, as you say, there's always a workaround. But remember, I'm just talking about the power amp here, not the pre, and the fan noise is something Id like to avoid if possible...

 

[Jeffrey Wash]

A high pass filter can be used as a blocker to lows that are below what the speaker can reproduce . It only lets the notes above whatever the filter is set at pass . On the Crown XLS amp the lowest filter is at 50Hz and some think this is too high since some of what a 5 string will do goes below that . I've used the 50Hz filter with my XLS 1000 and didn't think it made that big a difference in the low end so it doesn't bother me but some have said they can hear it . It is a good way to protect your speakers at higher volumes if the low end sounds good to you .

By the way , I like my XLS quite a bit . I thought it was underpowered at first but have changed my mind since , nice amp . I also have not heard the fan . I use mine with an RBI preamp and a VT bass pedal .

Thanks for that. Makes perfect sense and I can see why 50hz might be limiting in a bass specific application.

Do you have the XLS 1000 or 1500?

 

[MuzikMan]

Thanks for that. Makes perfect sense and I can see why 50hz might be limiting in a bass specific application.

Do you have the XLS 1000 or 1500?

I like a 30hz high pass filter. QSC amps have that capability. Some high end rack eq's have a variable high pass filter, which is another option.

 

[Jeffrey Wash]

This makes no sense to me.

Wouldn't a fan have to be ungodly loud for a mic, aimed directly at a speaker, to hear it? And even then, it's a simple matter to move the amp to the null side of the mic. Or into a different room.

I bought one of the very first Aguilar DB750s. The initial model of that amp had a REALLY loud fan. I still vividly recall one of my first gigs with it, lugging that heavy mother up a flight of stairs and setting up in a tiny space to play a 'jazz background' gig. (Weren't many Micro rigs available at that time). The fan noise was so loud that the pianist and drummer had a good laugh about it all night. Now that I think about it, that's probably when I became a little 'overly sensitive' about the fan issue.

Shortly afterward I had a few email exchanges with Dave B at Aguilar and was informed that they had since begun installing quieter fans on the DB750s. I ended up sending mine back - CA to NYC - to have the 'whisper fan' installed. Not long after I took that rig to a session and did indeed end up putting it in a separate room away from the cab. The cab was miced close and distant and there was nowhere in that room that the amp could go where the 'whisper fan' wasn't picked up by the mics. So the engineer rummaged around and found a long enough speaker cable and we got it into another room.

So, yeah, there's ways around it but I'd just rather not have to hassle with it unless I absolutely have to. But if you're getting exactly what you want from your amp and it's a small thing to split your rig then my hat's off to you - Rock On!

 

[steve_rolfeca]

mark me as a Carver fan, as well.
I've had a PM350 ( 350 watts/side into 8 ohms) and PM 175 for must be nearly 20 years and still going string. Pretty 'shallow' too for an easy rack fit.

I had a PM 1.2 way back when, 375 watts a side into 8 ohms. Decent-sounding amp for a lightweight, although not in Bryston territory...

I would have three concerns about Carver:

- Longevity/repairability. They're getting pretty long in the tooth at this point, and they were pretty bleeding edge for the time. When they break, there aren't a lot of repairmen who know how to troubleshoot them competently.

- Heat/stress. They didn't like to be run bridged, or at full blast for extended periods. In club use, they would go into protection a couple of times a night, and embarrass the sound company. I got mine cheap ($275 in 1990) because a local DJ outfit was dumping a couple of racks worth of them. I never had a problem in 20 years of ownership, but I never ran it in the red...

- Price. You're talking about a boutique-ish American-made product, that was popular in the hi-fi community. I suspect you'd pay close to as much for a 25 year old Carver, as you would for a brand-new Crown with a warranty.

 

[audiomitch]

Will the xls1000 and xls1500 run 4 ohm bridged?

Yes

 

[BBEgo]

Carvin seems to have some really nice options on power amps.

Ditto! +1

I have a Crown XTi1000 power amp that I used to power my bass rig, and it did a good enough job. But I always felt the lows weren't as tight and focused as they could be.

Then I got a Carvin DCM3800L to power my PA mains. Just for a goof, I tried it out on my bass rig, and I was blown away by the difference in sound.

I always thought that a power amp is a power amp, but that simply is not true. The Carvin DCM3800L positively KILLED the Crown XTi, in terms of sound quality.

Obviously, a 3800 watt amp is going to be louder than a 1400 watt, but it wasn't about the volume. Something about the way the Carvin handled the lows really impressed me. I'm sure it has to do with the damping factor or some other technical mumbo jumbo, but whatever it is just rocks!

Oh, and the Carvin is just 15lbs.

To be fair, the Crown XTi1000 has some really nice DSP (crossover, limiting, storable settings, etc...) on it. The Carvin lacks somewhat in the features department, but it delivers on tone.

If you give Carvin a call and haggle a bit, they may take a little off the price too.

 

[Blues Bass 2]

Thanks for that. Makes perfect sense and I can see why 50hz might be limiting in a bass specific application.

Do you have the XLS 1000 or 1500?

I've got the XLS 1000 .