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Power Amp: Tube vs. Solid State

F

flameboy87

Guest
Sep 2, 2012
6
0
#1
Hey guys, I am after buying a tube preamp (Trace Elliot GP12XV) and also want to upgrade my power amp because its pretty weak and not going to let me get the best out of my new preamp.

I have being doing some research on power amps and not sure if I want to go for solid state or tube. What are the main differences? Will tube add to my tone so much that it warrants spending the extra cash?

Cheers
 
#2
My 2c is that a dedicated power amp shouldn't be changing your tone. Get the rest of the chain right, so you can worry about things like weight, price, and reliability.

If you WANT the power amp to change things, you still can't assume that "tube" automatically equals a certain tone. So you'll need to do some testing.
 
#3
flameboy87 said:
Hey guys, I am after buying a tube preamp (Trace Elliot GP12XV) and also want to upgrade my power amp because its pretty weak and not going to let me get the best out of my new preamp.

I have being doing some research on power amps and not sure if I want to go for solid state or tube. What are the main differences? Will tube add to my tone so much that it warrants spending the extra cash?

Cheers
Click to expand...

Will it add to your tone? It can depending on the amp and how hard you are pushing it. If you are pushing it into break up then the clipping in a tube amp is more pleasing than a SS amp. That said you are unlikely to find a tube amp that is light, or comes anywhere near the power rating of a SS amp. My 400 watt tube amp weighs 100 pounds. My 1600 watt SS amp weighs 7 pounds.
 
#4
It actually isnt true that all power amps are just power gain with no fingerprint. Some amps simply do not have any authority in the bass. It isn't an EQ thing, more a cheap power supply thing. I've even had some power amps that sound amazing with a balanced line in, but sound like utter garbage with an unbalanced signal.
To get some more productive replies maybe fill us in on what kind band you are in, type of bass, location etc.
 
#5
If you're willing to go all tube for a poweramp, then you're probably willing to schlep something relatively heavy. If you want to operate on a budget, yet want el-superemo sound, consider a used Crest CA4, CA6 or CA9: ( [Invalid or Expired Link Removed] ) The old school "lead sled" poweramps like the Crest CA series are typically available for a song on the used market due to the overwhelming popularity of the featherweight newer style poweramps. A legendary local music store around these parts, Chuck Levin's Washington Music Center, has always had a great bass equipment selection including a giant rack filled with many of the great preamps that are or I should say were on the market (given the tectonic shift away from rack gear). Anyway, they had (or may very well still have) a Crest CA4 as the reference poweramp for all of them. A salesman friend of mine who has worked there since the 80's told me that they tried a lot of different poweramps to use as their reference and the CA4 was head and shoulders above them all.
 
#6
Calaverasgrande said:
Some amps simply do not have any authority in the bass. It isn't an EQ thing, more a cheap power supply thing
Click to expand...

And this is a good reason to get yourself a more powerful amp than you think you'll need. If you use only a fraction of its output power capability you won't be stressing the power supply and the bottom end will be stronger.

As an added bonus you get a headroom margin to deal with transients.
 
#7
dincz said:
And this is a good reason to get yourself a more powerful amp than you think you'll need. If you use only a fraction of its output power capability you won't be stressing the power supply and the bottom end will be stronger.

As an added bonus you get a headroom margin to deal with transients.
Click to expand...

And with the modern lightweight amps, you can get 1500 or 2000 or 3000w and they all weigh the same. I personally want my power amp to sound the same, no matter whether I'm turned down low or cranked and I don't think tube power amps do that. I also don't like the extra saggy spongy sound of a power section driven hard.
 
#8
Calaverasgrande said:
It actually isnt true that all power amps are just power gain with no fingerprint. Some amps simply do not have any authority in the bass. It isn't an EQ thing, more a cheap power supply thing. I've even had some power amps that sound amazing with a balanced line in, but sound like utter garbage with an unbalanced signal.
To get some more productive replies maybe fill us in on what kind band you are in, type of bass, location etc.
Click to expand...

+1

i'm so tired of TB'ers telling me that my 1200w amp will sound the same as their 400w amp section given the same preamp!:spit: i did a side by side comparison of three component amplifiers using the same pre and the higher watt amp had a much better/stronger fundamental at similar decibel levels.
 
#9
I don't think that anyone would claim that amps of different wattages will act the same. Its how the amp deals with transients and/or lows, which are what take wattage. A 400w amp certainly isn't going to have the same headroom that a 1200w amp has, especially at similar volumes.
 
#10
Calaverasgrande said:
I've even had some power amps that sound amazing with a balanced line in, but sound like utter garbage with an unbalanced signal.
Click to expand...
This is common, and it is because those particular power amps are actually 6 dB less sensitive with an unbalanced input. IOW the unbalanced connection is 6 dB weaker, meaning the preamp has to be boosted that much higher in order to drive the power amp adequately.
 
#11
Ya I had been looking at tube power amps and the one thing I was concerned about is how different it would act at different volumes, depending on how much it was being pushed. From what ye are saying I am kind of leaning towards solid state since the preamp is going to weigh in pretty heavy as it is.

Also I would like to have something that had alot of headroom, something that wouldn;t need to be pushed hard and still be able to hold on to its tone as you dial up the volume. Anyway, thanks guys for all your advice :)
 
#12
I use a Hughes and Kettner BATT for light to medium pre/power tube overdrive and run it into a Yamaha PB-1 into a QSC USA 850. It provides me all the perks of a pre/power rig with tube OD/compression.
 
#13
Get yourself a good solid versatile lightweight power amp and you'll have more money to spend on your bass and pre-amp. Get a good pre-amp and bass and you can feed this into a board for recording of FOH use.

Now consider getting an amp with a DSP. It will let you do EQ, compensation, crossover, variable HPF, ...

The new DSP versions of Peavey and Crest are a good option since they include Maxxbass which will solidify your bass even with small cabinets.

You don't need a power conditioner.
 
#16
I may have missed it but are you usually running with PA support? If so I would go for an SS amp. Your tube pre line out will warm up the signal going to the board. (Just be mindful that the "boomier" your signal is, the muddier it will be out front in many cases.) And your SS power amp will be more reliable, lighter, less expensive, and take up less room. You would have to be a huge fan of tube tone to bypass all four of those advantages.
 
#17
As a huge fan of tube tone, it's totally worth it. Most of the time, anyway. Stairs will make you hate life carrying a 300w tube power amp, though. But there's no sound on earth quite like tube amps, so it's still worth it to me as long as the stairs are kept to a minimum. But really, I use it all. Tubes, SS...did my gig tonight with a micro rig. It's all good as long as you get the sound you want.
 
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#19
bongomania said:
This is common, and it is because those particular power amps are actually 6 dB less sensitive with an unbalanced input. IOW the unbalanced connection is 6 dB weaker, meaning the preamp has to be boosted that much higher in order to drive the power amp adequately.
Click to expand...

as the front desk girl at my work says. "Obvee!"
I am actually talking about MI power amps that have a badly implemented front end. Which should sound the same with either source, but as you point out be 6db less with only one leg and ground as opposed to balanced which is 2 legs and ground.
Instead it was about 3 or 4 db less, but had no solid low end.
With that amp (who I won't name because their products are better these days) I would end up running unbalanced to an EQ or compressor that I'd bypass, then take the balanced out to the power amp. Why use unbalanced at all? Well this was a PA I rented to DJ's.
As far a buying 2000W amps to do a 500w amp job.
I certainly wouldn't buy a cheapie 2000 watt amp and expect it to have a good solid power supply. Bargain brands are known to not only underspec their power supplies, but also to overstate the power capacity.

As far as tube power amps go, IMHO it is pointless. If you want a tube bass amp, componentized rack gear is kind of the opposite of all that.
A tube head is simple. Basic eq, gain, volume.
 
#20
CL400Peavey said:
Will it add to your tone? It can depending on the amp and how hard you are pushing it.

My 400 watt tube amp weighs 100 pounds. My 1600 watt SS amp weighs 7 pounds.
Click to expand...

Hey hows it goin, I've got a Peavey Classic 400 too :cool:

________________


I've compared the tone and feel of several of my 300/400 watt tube power sections used to power my PA system... :eyebrow:

I typically use solid state power amps for my PA, but I've experimented substituting the power-amp sections of my Mesa 400+, SVT-II (non-pro) and my Peavey Classic 400 by connecting my mixers output to the power-amps input (effects-return) of each of these bass amps.

I typically just run my bands vocals and kick drum through my PA... I noticed quite a big difference using each of these tube poweramps compared to my solid state poweramps, but byfar the biggest difference was when using my Peavey Classic 400. Even at similar volume levels, that poweramp added lots more fullness and a deeper heft to the vocals, and especially to the kick drum channel. That 8 x KT88 poweramp is one bad-a$$ hombre, it sounds and feels much deeper, its almost like I've suddenly added big subwoofers to to my PA.

(note, the eq-section/tone-knobs of all 3 of these tube powered bass amps were bypassed during all these experiments, so they weren't responsible for altering my results.)

So to sum this rather bizarre post up:
Yes, tube vs S/S poweramps can make a huge difference.
But what you like best is a matter of your personal preference.
 

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