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poweramp without preamp?

Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs [BG]' started by ::::BASSIST::::, May 30, 2005.

  1. ::::BASSIST::::

    ::::BASSIST:::: Progress Not Perfection.

    Sep 2, 2004
    Vancouver, BC Canada
    thinking of buying a stewart world 600, but i cant afford a preamp at this time.

    if i used my passive bass directly into the poweramp what would be the result?
  2. Brendan

    Brendan Supporting Member

    Jun 18, 2000
    Austin, TX
    No sound. There's not enough noise (dB wise) coming out of a passive, or active, for that matter. If you can't afford a preamp, then just hold off. Your Fishman Platinum plus should work fine as a preamp. The XLR out into the power amp's input should work fine.
  3. gilbert46


    Sep 21, 2004
    Sacramento, CA
    i tried with my crown with bad results. you need to turn the amp up so high to get more sound then a 15 watt combo that it clips. check out the cheap art and behringer preamps or mabye the newer version of the sabbdi. I just did this routine so I feel for ya.
  4. Bassic83


    Jul 26, 2004
    Texas, USSA
    Get a BBE BMax pre. You'll be happy you did!~
  5. ::::BASSIST::::

    ::::BASSIST:::: Progress Not Perfection.

    Sep 2, 2004
    Vancouver, BC Canada
    i was told that the fishman wouldnt have enough output so I wouldnt be able to use it. this has not been your experience?
  6. Brendan

    Brendan Supporting Member

    Jun 18, 2000
    Austin, TX
    I don't know personally, but I did stay at the Holiday Inn Express last night.

    It (the manual) says the XLR out (not the 1/4") can drive a mixing board or PA, meaning if you hook that up to your power amp, it should be at line level, not the instrument level (which is what the 1/4" output is). Line level should drive the power amp without issue. And I'm pretty sure the XLR will be cheaper than a DI box or preamp, anyway.

    Check out the user manual on Fishman's website (it's in PDF, so you need Adobe Acrobat, which is free, and a standard anyway) if ye doubt my claim.
  7. ::::BASSIST::::

    ::::BASSIST:::: Progress Not Perfection.

    Sep 2, 2004
    Vancouver, BC Canada
    oh, i dont doubt it, i just hope its true!

    so if i may clarify/summarize.. i can use the fishman pro platinum's xlr output (even though it runs on a 9volt battery) to drive a poweramp..

    guess it would go thru batteries pretty quick..
  8. What you could do is go into a music shop with your bass, and try out a power amp, or try plugging into the power amp section of a full head, just to check?
  9. Kael


    Dec 26, 2004
    Oklahoma City
    Get a Boss PS-2 power adapter (I think that is the model number) and you won't need the batteries. I use one with my Fishman.

    The fishman's ouput is not as hot as most preamps, but I've played quite a few shows with the Fishman's output (1/4" not the XLR) into a Crest vs-900 into a EA CXL-112 or whatever other cab was there. It is do-able, just a) don't be stingy with the ouput knob, b) dime that depth knob, c) make sure you get your input clip light flashing on loud to moderately loud average play (mine seems a little overly sensitive to me, most fishman stuff is designed for acoustic players), and d) use the compression knob sparingly. Once again the output won't be as hot as the above mentioned BBE, but power amps look for differing input levels. As long as you don't get a power amp that needs huge voltage you should be fine. Main trick for me seems to be recognizing that the "clip" light lights up way before you are anywhere near clipping. At least mine does. My clip light kicks in every time I dig in with zilch in the way of signal degradation.

    Try it in the effects return slot of your clarus and see if you have a comparable volume level.
  10. Brendan

    Brendan Supporting Member

    Jun 18, 2000
    Austin, TX
    Battery problem solved.

    Kael, have you tried using the XLR output to power your Crest? Have you gotten better, or the same results?
  11. ::::BASSIST::::

    ::::BASSIST:::: Progress Not Perfection.

    Sep 2, 2004
    Vancouver, BC Canada
    I am considering buying a stewart world 600 ... 600w at 4ohms bridged.

    would the xlr out of the sabddi be equal to or better than the fishman as a pre? i wouldnt mind adding some warmth.
  12. Kael


    Dec 26, 2004
    Oklahoma City
    Actually, no I haven't. Approximately half the time that XLR out is going to the FOH, so I've just become accustomed to using the 1/4" to the power amp. Interesting idea however. I need to try a/b'ing the two to the power amp when I get home this evening. Might be a better signal, just don't know off the top of my head.

    Thanks for the idea....
  13. konfishily


    Jan 24, 2004
    Brooklyn, NY
    You can probably go straight from your onboard preamp, if the preamp is 18+V.

    I've done it with a 9v preamp, but it doesnt give enough juice. Forget about going straight from a passive.

    Your better off getting a preamp so you can get the most juice out of your rig. People here seem to like BBE and SansAmp. I use a rackmount Line 6 POD.
  14. 43apples

    43apples Guest

    Nov 9, 2003
    Well, when i plug into the "poweramp in" of my Peavey Centurion head, it's at "full volume" all the time, and also painstakingly loud :).

    The master volume seems bypassed, so i suppose it's running at full blast ;). The only problem is that when i do it, i have no volume control except for my bass.... i suppose it's just my amp that does this :D
  15. Brian Barrett

    Brian Barrett

    Nov 25, 2001
    Cane Ridge, TN (Nashville)
    Dealer LowEndBassShop.com, Builder LowEndBasses.com
    I use Passive and Active basses at the shop (The LowEnd) all the time with out preamps and it works perfect. You have to have a power amp of quality with a good input db like the Crest or the Lab Gruppen amps!

    I also use the True-voice preamp for the same reason I use to plug straight into amps. It gives the customer a better idea of what the bass sounds like. Many would want the straight power amp and no pre once they heard their basses and many times made customer's fall in love with their basses again because they actually heard it and not the head unit.

    The Crest does great with its input setting (CA, LT series), but the Lab Gruppen allows you to adjust the input gain, which is very unique. So I would check out a different power amp, but youÂ’re on a better track this route then just buying some head unit.

    Best of luck with the search,
  16. Aslong as you get one of the newer Sansamp BDDI's (not nessicerally the programmable one) , one that has the line and instrument level switches on the front, those models have been designed so they can also be used as a preamp not just and effect/DI
  17. 4Mal

    4Mal Supporting Member

    Jun 2, 2002
    Columbia River Gorge
    ART Tube MP would provide enough gain for very cheap. You can run the Fishman into that if necessary. The ART is not only cheap it's also pretty clear so you wont be adding any other crap* into your signal path ...

    crap - in this case unwanted noise or color ...
  18. Joe Beets

    Joe Beets Guest

    Nov 21, 2004
    I run my passive bass direct into a Stewart 1.2. In the bridge mode into 4 ohms it will put out about 400-500 watts. Louder than most combo amps. Of course, if I didn't like the sound of my bass, or if I couldn't EQ with my hand position, then I would need a preamp. :meh:
  19. Marcus Willett

    Marcus Willett

    Feb 8, 2005
    Palm Bay, FL
    Endorsing Artist: Bag End - Dean Markley - Thunderfunk
    Yes, it will. I use exactly this setup all the time.

    No, it's not bad. You will typically get about 60-80 hours depending on gain/EQ whatnot settings. Obviously, an adapter is better, but I like the convenience of not having to deal with that. When the low batt light comes on, you have at least 4 hours (according to the manual, and that sounds about right based on my experience) before it's dead. Plenty of time to change between sets or probably even finish the gig.

    The output is a bit low to drive a power amp directly; I typically need to set the output vol about 3/4, but it most definitely works. At gigs outside my show, I use it to run straight into the power amp return of the Behringer (yeah, I know....) BX3000T amp, and it sounds much better.
  20. Marcus Willett

    Marcus Willett

    Feb 8, 2005
    Palm Bay, FL
    Endorsing Artist: Bag End - Dean Markley - Thunderfunk
    True, like I said, the output is a bit low. The Behringer (yeah, I know...) ;) is a 300W head, and this has proven to be plenty loud fo my jazz gigs. But your point is taken; unless you have a lot of power at your disposal, it might not work optimally. I haven't found the diff between using the Fishman and using the pre in the head to be too drastic tho. At work, I run the output to a mixer to mix with my V-Bass, so it solves that problem. I just like the unit and the compressor works nicely for bass, methinks.

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