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Powered PA speaker instead of amp?

#21
CL400Peavey said:
I have never seen a Yorkville product new in a store in my neck of the woods. Do you have any technical info on the woofer they use in that cab?
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To the best of my knowledge they use a custom made-for-the cab Celestion 600W driver. The real majic for extension is in the DSP, and they get away with it due to amp size. They have a club/concert switch that extends bass or clears up for vocals. It is one heck of a cab. The 15 has a bit more SPL with a bit less midrange and the 12 has a bit more pronounced midrange. If you are ever in Missouri you are welcome to stop by and listen to mine. Most reviews say the the PS12P has better bass response (stand alone) than any other 12" powered cab in comparable price range. Of course all reviews are subjective.
 
#22
I spent quite a few years taking on anything I could get for really cheap. I think rigs can be a subjective as anything. If you use heavily overdriven signals, and wah, effects; the fuller range rigs might just be the worst way to go.... so you'd never suggest it. Conversely, a really defined and mid-forward or hifi tonal preference may make that same cab perfect for a player that carries the room with their rig. You shouldn't expect it to perform better than a good bass cab, but it may perform better than not-great bass cabs. I see it this way: (1) Bass head and cab, (2) bass combo, (3) guitar amp and bass cab, (4) keyboard combos, (5) powered pa cabs, (6) powered monitors, (7) guitar combos.... as far as determining on-the-fly bass rigs. Not including direct with no rig and setups like that....
I still say if it's temporary, the cab is already there, and it's loud enough without distorting, game on.
 
#23
I do it all the time. I own a number of modern powered PA speakers & it's often a lot easier to grab 1 of them for a rehearsal or small gig than it is to bring a "real" bass amp. Even 2 PA speakers are smaller, lighter, more flexible, easier to pack & haul than my smallest bass rig, & they do the sonic part of the business at least as well as I need.

Modern powered PA speakers have built-in 2-, 3- (or sometimes more?) channel mixers with preamps & enough input gain range to handle pretty much anything anyone would reasonably want to plug in, as well as basic EQ & some other signal processing. Besides line-level mixer, etc. signals, I've used active & passive basses & guitars, keyboards, iPods, & mics (dynamic - no phantom power from mine, but others might) as signal sources.
 
#25
JBL Eon which I've seen for a little over 4 bills, have a

Freq. Response (±3 dB) 50 Hz - 20 kHz

Which is as wide low end as many a bass amp.

True though, If you want to crank in a bigger room, add a sub. It has plenty of power for a top.

Problem with the molded speakers is they aren't rectangle square. Just a different form factor.
 
#26
As a point of comparison, Acoustic Control 360 heads are just a preamp. The power section is in the 361 cabinet. So, it's just a preamp sending a signal to a powered cabinet. That's how Acoustic USA 360s work now. So, from the standpoint of where the power section is, it just doesn't matter. What does matter is whether you are using a powered PA speaker that sounds good with what you are doing.

Another thought is that it's not uncommon for bass to get FOH support. That means your sound is coming out of a PA cabinet. I don't see any problems here.
 
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#27
I wish this worked for me. I guess if it's good enough for Darryl Jones it should be good enough for me but I haven't found a single cab that does it. I love my sound from the FOH. I use a Radial JDI and that's it. Seems like I should like a powered PA speaker as a "bass rig" as well. Maybe if I spent more money on it...
 
#28
I say if it works for you and your situation, then go for it. For years, I used an Ampeg SVT-PRO preamp direct into the FOH and back to us through beefy monitors with 15" JBL's and a horn. It wasn't the best sounding rig but then again, I didn't have to haul a bass cab. As others have said, you could probably support a small room with no problem depending on what you have access to.

I now bring a head and cab cause we use IEM's and I need a little thump. One technique I use is to turn down the bass to about 9:00 o'clock and boost the low mids, around 200 Hz. I find I get FAR more volume and headroom out of my setup when it's not trying to reproduce all of those lows.
 
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#32
CL400Peavey said:
95% of pa gear is cheap pa gear.
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Ha, you are probably right, man.

Lots of cheapo poopy massive produced stuff out there.
In every category, there is the bad and the good.

My PA cab has a clear roll off of deep bass at 70 hz, and, if I could measure it with surgucal precision, maybe there would be a certain minor roll off even higher, by 3 db and so on. It's quite simple to check. Just use a good (again) parametric eq with a very narrow q, try boosting lows by ket's say 10 db and turn slowly the frequency control up until you start to hear the boost. It's not a precise way, but it gives you an idea of the real tuning of a cab.

My barefaced bb2 (bass cab) starts at 30-35 hz,
My powered PA speaker at 65-70 hz, but it's tiny!

What I'm trying to say is that lately i began to not care so much for absolutes (i want true bass, more bass is always better...), but i care a lot for my band's tone, and I don't care if I have to play trough a behemoth 2000 watts bass wonder or a cheapo pa stuff, if we sound good, it's fine.
 
#33
sratas said:
What I'm trying to say is that lately i began to not care so much for absolutes (i want true bass, more bass is always better...), but i care a lot for my band's tone, and I don't care if I have to play trough a behemoth 2000 watts bass wonder or a cheapo pa stuff, if we sound good, it's fine.
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Absolutely.

I just dont find active monitors/mains to give me what I want out of my bass rig on their own. For what I would have to spend/haul to get their with PA gear, I am not saving any money/size/weight over my current rig, and in almost all cases, exceeding those for less performance.
 
#35
modulusman said:
I have played gigs with a classic rock band using a Sansamp programmable bass DI into a Yamaha DXR10 without PA support. We were not overly loud but the speaker never sounded like it was being stressed.
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Maybe in your world that works.

For me it wouldnt cut it on many levels. That is ok, different goals, different gigs, different needs. I also do not find the vast majority of "real bass cabs" to meet my needs either.
 
#38
CL400Peavey said:
My experience is that the powered PA speakers I have used have a roll off a lot higher than 50-60hz. More like 100-120.
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A lot of them (powered) have a high-pass option at 100 Hz. Some have a choice of 2 or more cut-off frequencies, & some even have a continuous range. Some configurators "hide" what's going on by calling it a "Sub" option - turn it on & the 100 Hz high-pass is engaged.
 
#39
modulusman said:
Well some of us are smart enough to let the PA do the real work. You know the way the pros do it.:D
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If the gig already has a PA set up, great, this approach is quite viable!

But what if it's a small club that doesn't have a PA? Now the band has to supply the PA. So does the band supply enough PA to handle the bass too, when in reality the PA could handle just vocals if the bass player had a bass rig of his own? If the band-supplied PA has to carry bass as well as vocals, then the PA cabs are now larger and heavier...nothing has been gained.
 
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#40
nashvillebill said:
If the gig already has a PA set up, great, this approach is quite viable!

But what if it's a small club that doesn't have a PA? Now the band has to supply the PA. So does the band supply enough PA to handle the bass too, when in reality the PA could handle just vocals if the bass player had a bass rig of his own? If the band-supplied PA has to carry bass as well as vocals, then the PA cabs are now larger and heavier...nothing has been gained.
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Well my band almost always supplies the PA unless it is a festival gig. What about the kick drum? anybody who things there band sounds better without subwoofers is totally clueless IMO. We actually use subs in a room that is about 35x35 ft. for an audience that usually averages about 60 people. With a decent PA you don't need a bass amp at all.
My smallest PA consists of a pair of Yamaha DXR10s and a DXS sub. Total weight is about 135 pounds and all together it would take up less room than a 610 bass cab. I have used this rig in bars with over a 100 people and wasn't even coming close to stressing the PA.
 

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