Powered PA speakers for bass?

[Jeff Scott]

So... anyone got anything new to say here? I've been contemplating using two stacks (L+R) of PA speakers w/ subs as my bass rig. Along with a preamp, graphic eq, compressor, noisegate. All rackmount and a pedalboard.

Only that, whatever you get make sure it's from these guys.

Meyer Sound

Meyer Sound was founded in 1979 to create the best sonic experiences possible, built on scientific innovation and quality engineering. Pure, honest sound.

meyersound.com

Hope this helps.

 

[Wasnex]

So... anyone got anything new to say here? I've been contemplating using two stacks (L+R) of PA speakers w/ subs as my bass rig. Along with a preamp, graphic eq, compressor, noisegate. All rackmount and a pedalboard.

Total overkill, but it will work fine as long as you use quality gear and prefer a full range sound.

I used to biamp a GK 800RB into a Bag End S15D and a Ramsa WS-A200

It was the clearest, most articulate rig I have ever used. The Bag End does not play very low, so not a lot of fat, but I am okay with that.

One of my peers asked to use my rig when both of our groups performed on the same stage. He hated this rig. He turned the Ramsa off, and cranked the lows as much as he could (wasn't enough). I told him to bring his own rig next time.

I don't necessarily suggest that you go out and buy a bunch of PA gear. But if you already have it, try it out.

 

[Mister_GothFrak]

I'm mainly looking for subwoofers that can handle the 20-40hz range and will use a low-cut pedal to toggle. So, no, I don't want all subbass all the time -- it's something to give that extra when it's warranted.

It looks like my options are to find a PA subwoofer that has specs available and will actually produce these frequencies at an audible level -- I'm okay with them being a little quieter and have a 2ch 31band EQ that'll give up to +12db of 20hz, 25hz, 31.5hz.
Or, buy my own sub speaker and build a horn loaded cab. I'm fine with it being the size of a full stack and have a hand truck and large vehicle to move two of them (L+R cabs for full stereo + MIDI effects).

I might split the signal and go from preamp to PA amp just for the sub's and use a regular bass head for the rest.

 

[Wasnex]

I'm mainly looking for subwoofers that can handle the 20-40hz range...
It looks like my options are to find a PA subwoofer that has specs available and will actually produce these frequencies at an audible level -- I'm okay with them being a little quieter and have a 2ch 31band EQ that'll give up to +12db of 20hz, 25hz, 31.5hz.

Not sure if you understand this. EQ can be used to modify the response curve, but it ca not be used to increase how loud a cab can play at a certain frequency. I will use the TL405 graphs again.

In this chart the dotted line shows the unprocessed response curve of the TL405 in step-down tuning. The curve slopes down from about 125hz. The dashed line shows the response curve with corrective EQ applied. With corrective EQ, the response is flat to about 30hz and down -3dB at 27hz. However this chart is not reference to a specific SPL.

This chart shows the max output the TL405 can provide at various frequencies. Step down tuning is shown with the dotted line. The TL405 in step down can produce about 120dB down to around 80hz. From there max output slopes down at about 6dB/octave to about 114dB between 40hz and 30hz. The cab is tuned to 27hz in step down, and max output drops off sharply below 27hz.

This means if you want flat response to 30hz, you max output is limited to about 114dB. If you use EQ to try an get more output at 30hz, the driver will exceed it's excursion limit and experience mechanical breakdown.

The builder plans say the TL405 in step down can produce at least 0.5 acoustic Watts down to the lower limit (LL) which is 24hz. Per the max output chart, 0.5 acoustic Watts is a hair over 110dB. So if you want flat response to 24hz, you are limited to about 110dB.

Because our ears are not very sensitive to super low frequencies, 110dB at 24hz will sound equal volume to about 93dB at 100hz and 80dB at 1kHz.

I have played with my TL405s and a tone generator, and output at 24hz is not impressive in the least. My impression is they seem to do okay down to about 35hz.

AFAIK we perceive super low frequencies more through tactile sensation than hearing. In order to really feel 24hz, it must be considerably louder than 110dB.

The Danley DTS10 has response down to 10hz. One weighs 285lbs, and you may need multiples. Specs and other info can be viewed or downloaded from: DTS10 | Danley Sound Labs

 

[Mister_GothFrak]

EQ can be used to modify the response curve

Ah yeah, that's what I meant.


Ah yeah, the DTS10 was the one I was looking at. Sweetwater currently does not have any. (Not that I am buying any of this, this year.)

One thing:
Playing the open B string and as lower and lower on the low E string... When using headphones, I hear it getting lower and lower but, when using the speakers in the amp, it starts to sound weird because I no longer hear the fundamentals. This is just playing quietly.

(I don't normally play on the low E string. It is really cool to have, sometimes. And yes, it's completely different than "WhY DonT U JuST Us3 an OCtaVe PeDaL, BRo")

Let me add another anecdote:
Back from 2001-2010, I had a 100w 1x15" combo amp. It was barely audable with 2x 4x12" 100w+ guitar amps and a very heavy handed drummer. It was still obvious that I was playing and if I messed up or played differently. I think I pretty much had the amp set up to "loud" lol.

So, I'm figuring, no matter what, adding in that extra bottom will have some effect. I could also go from the mono-summed XLR sub out on the EQ to the sound board for extra oomph when I'm at a place where I can do so.

 

[lowplaces]

Since we are discussing this, I have a Yamaha powered speaker and Yamaha mixer.

It's the DBR 10

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Before I try it with my bass (passive P/UP, 4 string), anything I need to know ?

 

[Mister_GothFrak]

Before I try it with my bass (passive P/UP), anything I need to know ?

I'm pretty sure you'll need a preamp.
Bass pedals preamp PA speaker

Remember to make sure the volume is down on everything before turning it on!

 

[lowplaces]

I'm pretty sure you'll need a preamp.
Bass pedals preamp PA speaker

Remember to make sure the volume is down on everything before turning it on!

Oh yeah, I always turn everything down before I power down. Double check before powering back up. Amp, PA, all of it. Make all connections before powering up as well.

Is a powered mixer a preamp ? If so I'm covered. Only pedals I have is a HPF and Keeley Bassist.

 

[Mister_GothFrak]

Is a powered mixer a preamp ?

I think generally not. I believe it has to do more with the appropriate signal levels. Also PAs have minimal EQ/tone shaping at best.

Take a look at the manual and compare it with your signal chain.

 

[dsteinschneider]

I always use the PA Brainworx Ampeg B15N VST plugin when playing in my studio. The amp emulation is by Igor Nembrini and the signal chain is by Dirk Ulrich (cab sims, virtual mic, etc). It sounds nice with DT770 Pro headphones if I'm practicing quiet. This is all to preface that I tried playing it through a several PA configurations we have just to see how it plays/feels/sounds versus an amp. First I tried my Alto TS115a with upgraded Eminence Kappa C 15 woofer. It wasn't bad - I could live with for rehearsals. Then I tried a pair of EV ZXA1 SUBs with JBL Eon 10s. That actually sounded really nice but it's more to lug around than an amp. Also the signal chain would be my USB audio interface (IK Axe IO) into a Microsoft Surface Pro 6 running Cantabile Performer. Much more complicated than using a bass amp/cab.

 

[mellobud]

I ditched my amp head and currently have my cabs on Craigslist. I run a JBL eon 12 and tech21 nyc bass fly rig for home use and band practice now. I’m not missing anything about the bass cabs or heads.

The JBL app lets me customize my eq from my phone as much as I could wish for with its presets and 8 available customizable eq points (below is the cafe preset). I will admit that the tech21 bass fly rig had a learning curve and is a super hot pedal but my old pedal board works just as well for the setup.

I also have a jbl eon 18” sub for dad band gigs if I really wanted to blow the doors off my house for practice but the 12” main works great for day to day.

The Bluetooth function lets me play songs over the eon12 from my phone and I mix my bass in Ch1 to taste to play along. Super handy.

This is the new pedal that will replace the pedalboard above.

I typically only use the sub at gigs but I do have it available for at home practice if I wanted to get real stupid with the noise.

 

[WRM]

Oh yeah, I always turn everything down before I power down. Double check before powering back up. Amp, PA, all of it. Make all connections before powering up as well.

Is a powered mixer a preamp ? If so I'm covered. Only pedals I have is a HPF and Keeley Bassist.

A powered mixer is capable of driving a passive speaker cabinet, but should also have a line-out that you could use as a preamp for a powered speaker. Make sure you don't connect the mixer's "speaker out" to your powered speaker input.