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Double Bass Powered speaker as bass amp?

#2
I used a QSC K10 for a couple years and did not love it. It sounded great in certain environments (quieter gigs, or rooms with good acoustics) but was often unsatisfying for me. It wasn't punchy enough for what I'm aiming at. It also felt like the K10 sounded better from 15-20 feet away, which was never practical for me. Others will disagree with my experience, I'm sure.

Edit. I use a Headway EDB-1 pre.
 
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#6
I've got 2 Behringer EuroLive B212D powered PA 550w speakers that I normally use with a mixer for a small FOH system. I've used used one of them with my Alcoa double bass for my piezo system which uses an onboard K&K Dual Channel Pro ST pre-amp on it. The B212D works well like this, it has lots of volume with clear tone, and sounds very good; these speakers are designed to be used either with a mixer or directly with mic or signal lines; they each have dedicated onboard volume and EQ.

My only problem with using a B212D all the time is that they are bulky and heavy compared to a smaller, lighter, dedicated battery powered bass combo amp that I am more comfortable carrying around -- my lower back just won't allow the schlepping anymore. And for the amount of times that I actually have to be amped, the smaller amp does a fine job.

I've also got a Roland Cube Street, which by definition is also a powered speaker... This 2 channel box has 2x6.5" speakers, battery powered at 5W, a number which sounds tiny, but these boxes also put out surprising power and nice tone. The Cube Street supports both mic and signal line input on either channel, both EQ'ed, with voicing and effects available on one channel. But I've only used it in low-volume mix testing with my bass, so I can't really say how it does in the wild. I'm still a little unsure about blowing out the speakers with bass frequencies, so I don't know if I can recommend it for serious double bass work.

I'm not an expert with these, but it seems to me that a lot of this depends on what you're plugging in. Most of these powered speakers are primarily designed for mic input, providing the mic pre-amp within the speaker. So if you're plugging a pre-amp'ed instrument into them, you're going to have dual pre-amps in your signal chain. It's manageable but you'll have to watch your EQ and volumes.
 
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#7
Mike Arnopol said:
powered speakers of decent fidelity intended for bass might be a better idea
Click to expand...

Oh, now I get it! Sorry, Mike, I didn't realize I was talking to audio royalty. Please tell me what you can about the new 6's, both powered and passive, that you introduced at NAMM. I really like the weight, but how do they compare to the 8's in bass reproduction?
 
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#8
Hey Bob! I used (and still do when I have access to it) a QSC speaker and Grace Felix with my microphone. I loved the sound more than any amp I've ever used. While amps are great for the sub-bass low end that you can feel, the speaker gave me the most accurate representation of my sound ever. Because each note was clear, I felt more connected to the instrument—and everyone in the band could hear me better. Also, every note had the same energy and impact—playing high in thumb position sounded just as beefy as on the A string. Best amplified sound I ever had!

QSC K10 (and K12), Grace Felix, Schoeps CMC6.
 
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#9
(bass guitar player here) i use a qsc k10.2 for rehearsals and tiny room gigs. it works terrifically for those purposes where loud thump below 80 hz is not needed or wanted. it has a built-in setting for bass guitar, but i also have a sansamp vt something or other i use. i expect it would work well with a double bass; wish i could offer something a bit more concrete in that area. one would want a preamp with powerful e.q. for sure.
 
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#10
dkziemann said:
Hey Bob! I used (and still do when I have access to it) a QSC speaker and Grace Felix with my microphone. I loved the sound more than any amp I've ever used. While amps are great for the sub-bass low end that you can feel, the speaker gave me the most accurate representation of my sound ever. Because each note was clear, I felt more connected to the instrument—and everyone in the band could hear me better. Also, every note had the same energy and impact—playing high in thumb position sounded just as beefy as on the A string. Best amplified sound I ever had!

QSC K10 (and K12), Grace Felix, Schoeps CMC6.
Click to expand...

Hey Danny, I know the sound comes from the hands and the heart, but if that speaker/preamp combination will get me anywhere near that glorious sound you get, I'm buying that stuff tonight! Great to hear from you, man. Hope all's well.
 
#12
Hey Bob! More like the court jester as opposed to royalty! The Mini 6 as I call it has very similar bass reproduction to the 8's. Just doesn't go as loud or low. Both custom drivers share very similar specs. I go by the amount of air moved to approximate max volume. The 18 moves around 360 cc's of air. That's like a normal 12. The "super" 12's like Audiokinesis and Barefaced move around 490. The little mini 6 moves around 160 cc's. A standard 10 moves around 160 cc's. So the 6 is in line with a 10 like the Wizzy in terms of volume.Everything is a compromise. The compromise with the Mini is 1.It should be on the floor for top volume. It slants back so you'll hear it very well. The regular MAS16 is bigger---it's -3db point is lower .The MAS16 has no bass loss when elevated. The Mini will have to have the bass goosed a bit if elevated. So---if you compare the MAS16 to the Mini 16 with both on the floor--low end and max volume will be the same. If you elevate both---the MAS16 will go a bit louder because you have to raise the bass on the mini to equal it. Now---I always elevate my speakers, but with the Mini I don't feel the need.
2. The MAS16 has a mid/tweet that goes to 12khz. So--it would be a better choice for a little PA speaker or for acoustic guitar. For double bass---I find that the 4khz extension on the Mini is just fine.
As far as powering it---I feel that the ICE 125 module will work great. I have one oh and tried it. 250 watts into 8 and 550 into 4. More than enough to drive two of them.
PA speakers can be ok for bass, but not as well as speakers that are designed for bass.They can work fine but I feel that speakers that are designed to optimize the envelope of notes for bass are superior. The QSC's are PA speakers that do ok for bass. Mine are used for PA all of the time.
A story---I always wanted to get to the 55 Bar in NYC to hear Wayne Krantz. But my gigs always conflicted. One time we had an earlier concert so I could actually make it there. With Anthony Jackson on bass and Daphnis Prieto on drums. Holy Crap! Anthony had his $10k Meyer Sound PA rig. I was stoked. He was setting his sound and it was amazing. Went really low---the highs were like a recording studio. Once they started playing I couldn't distinguish one note from another. Rhythmically or pitch-wise. A huge wash of moosh.
Meyer Sound are the pinnacle of PA rigs, but they aren't designed for bass. They do great for bass in a PA mix but not as a bass rig.
 
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#13
From time to time if I'm already lugging out my PA I'll get lazy and/or practical and just run my bass through it. In my case, that's an Allen & Heath Zed 10FX mixer feeding my two K10s. (Have also done it with various house PAs, most often an old Mackie mixer and some even older JBL EONs.) I recommend a hi-z input of some sort along with some hi-pass. (Often use an fDeck but the little mixer also has those features on a couple channels and works surprisingly well.)
The latest time I did it, I found myself enjoying it quite a bit, more so than most of my recent experimentations with bass heads & cabs. Seemed less "woofy" and more even across the registers.
IME that approach tends to work best in a mix that approximates a true acoustic blend at lower levels. When things gets louder with drums, a bass amp does start to seem like the better tool for the job. (As does the electric bass...)
 
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#16
BobDeRosa said:
How do you define "decent fidelity"? Are such bass-specific speakers available commercially?
Click to expand...

P.A. Speakers have some issues with midrange and Double Bass reproduction. The crossover points aren’t as smooth or placed low enough for Double bass. I once used a QSC K 8 for DB, until I heard the side by side difference between a great P.A. Speaker and a great powered Bass speaker from MAS Sound works. I do not receive any compensation from Mike Arnopol except great sound.
 
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#18
Mike Arnopol said:
Hey Bob! More like the court jester as opposed to royalty! The Mini 6 as I call it has very similar bass reproduction to the 8's. Just doesn't go as loud or low. Both custom drivers share very similar specs. I go by the amount of air moved to approximate max volume. The 18 moves around 360 cc's of air. That's like a normal 12. The "super" 12's like Audiokinesis and Barefaced move around 490. The little mini 6 moves around 160 cc's. A standard 10 moves around 160 cc's. So the 6 is in line with a 10 like the Wizzy in terms of volume.Everything is a compromise. The compromise with the Mini is 1.It should be on the floor for top volume. It slants back so you'll hear it very well. The regular MAS16 is bigger---it's -3db point is lower .The MAS16 has no bass loss when elevated. The Mini will have to have the bass goosed a bit if elevated. So---if you compare the MAS16 to the Mini 16 with both on the floor--low end and max volume will be the same. If you elevate both---the MAS16 will go a bit louder because you have to raise the bass on the mini to equal it. Now---I always elevate my speakers, but with the Mini I don't feel the need.
2. The MAS16 has a mid/tweet that goes to 12khz. So--it would be a better choice for a little PA speaker or for acoustic guitar. For double bass---I find that the 4khz extension on the Mini is just fine.
As far as powering it---I feel that the ICE 125 module will work great. I have one oh and tried it. 250 watts into 8 and 550 into 4. More than enough to drive two of them.
PA speakers can be ok for bass, but not as well as speakers that are designed for bass.They can work fine but I feel that speakers that are designed to optimize the envelope of notes for bass are superior. The QSC's are PA speakers that do ok for bass. Mine are used for PA all of the time.
A story---I always wanted to get to the 55 Bar in NYC to hear Wayne Krantz. But my gigs always conflicted. One time we had an earlier concert so I could actually make it there. With Anthony Jackson on bass and Daphnis Prieto on drums. Holy Crap! Anthony had his $10k Meyer Sound PA rig. I was stoked. He was setting his sound and it was amazing. Went really low---the highs were like a recording studio. Once they started playing I couldn't distinguish one note from another. Rhythmically or pitch-wise. A huge wash of moosh.
Meyer Sound are the pinnacle of PA rigs, but they aren't designed for bass. They do great for bass in a PA mix but not as a bass rig.
Click to expand...

How much for the Mini 6 and 18, Mike?
 

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