Practical PA's with Good Tone for Club Gigs

[bucephylus]

The intent of this post is to identify good and practical PA setups that deliver good tone for live sound in typical weekend club dates.

As bassists, we spend a lot of effort and money on gear to create great tone. However, with a direct line to the FOH, it is the PA that delivers the actual sound to the paying customers.

I have somewhat limited club PA experience, primarily because many of the load in / load out dates use the PA only for vocals.

Last spring, I was working with a Southern Rock band that had a great PA consisting of a Yamaha board into QSC HPR153i / HPR181i stacks. These sounded great as a mix and the individual instruments were faithfully represented. Downside is they are expensive and heavy to load in/out.

More recently, the classic rock band I am working with is using a setup with Peavey SP2's sitting on top of Carvin subs. I don't like the sound (mix or bass) coming out of this rig at all. But, it is economical and easier to move.

Anyhow, not looking for folks to help resolve my issues. Instead, I was thinking that a thread to describe sound systems that are practical and deliver great sound in club situations would be interesting and useful.

What's the good gear for this application?

 

[modulusman]

For most bar situations with bands new to live sound I reccomend powered speakers. The QSC HPR, JBL PRX work great. With modern technology PA gear weighs alot less than it did in the past and is also cheaper. That being said if you want great sound you need to spend money. To many bands out there have Thousands invested in guitars and onstage amps and view the PA as an after thought. It is real easy to rack up $5-10,000.00 in a PA rig for a bar band.

 

[Already In Use]

I have a pretty big PA system thats played mostly outdoors. I cant speak to indoors but believe I have great sound based on the fact that people tell me so often.

I have 6 Peavy PR 15's. They sound great, are durable and light with neo mags. I use one of 2 powered mixers, both Peavey's, an XR600g(400 watts) and an XR8600(1200 watts). I also have a Peavey CS800S(1200 watts). I just added a PV118 and have plans for one more of those.

I have had live acts w/instruments and mics hooked in and it all worked great. Last big event we played to a big crowd(est 800) outdoors that featured an Elvis!

The Pr15's really reach out and IMO carry great sound across the EQ from crisp clear highs to smooth powerful lows. The lows are bolstered by the 18 inch subs. You have the flexibility to add monitors too as both mixers can split the amps dedicating one to mains and the other to monitors, each with their own EQ and gain controls.

Depending on club size I would venture that 4 Pr15's and 2 subs with the 8600 mixer and CS800s would absolutely rock the place.

I have demo'd Peavey's SP2's and SP4's. They carry more bottom end but IMO dont deliver the presence that the PR15's do for my taste.

This setup is easy to move around and pretty quick to set up. Naturally...I like it.

Ultimately I'd like 8 PR15's. That way I can run 4 off either mixer...4 off the CS800 along with 2 subs. I'd have 600 watts per each of the 4 channels.

For a DJ setup that does part time live acts it works great...

 

[SteveC]

We use a Yamaha powered board (can't remember the model) and two 15" 2 way Yamaha club speakers along with an 18" sub. We power the mains from the board, and have a separate amp for the sub. We also use Yamaha powered monitors.

We run Vox, keys, drums, bass, guitar and horns all through the FOH. Sounds great. We wil need more if we play larger venues, but for now this works great.

Yamaha makes great stuff.

 

[stflbn]

QSC K-series. I cannot say enough good things about my decision to buy a 1 k-sub, 2 k-10 mains, and 2 k-10 monitors system. Expect $4k+ though.

Small. Powerful. Great Sounding.

 

[quartermoonpro]

Here's what we have and it does well in small or bigger venues. The plus is that we have lots of headroom, so we don't have to be loud, but it's good clean sound without pushing in smaller venues.

2 - 2x15 w/ horn JBL
2 - 2x18 JBL
3 - 1x12 w/ horn for monitors (although I'd prefer 15's or in ears)

Allen & Heath GL2400
various outboard for monitors and effects.

The nice thing about this system is that for really small places, I can run it with just one stack and it has a nice full range sound. It's a flexible system so that we can play every size bar or even some outdoor gigs.

 

[modulusman]

I have a pretty big PA system thats played mostly outdoors. I cant speak to indoors but believe I have great sound based on the fact that people tell me so often.

I have 6 Peavy PR 15's. They sound great, are durable and light with neo mags. I use one of 2 powered mixers, both Peavey's, an XR600g(400 watts) and an XR8600(1200 watts). I also have a Peavey CS800S(1200 watts). I just added a PV118 and have plans for one more of those.

I have had live acts w/instruments and mics hooked in and it all worked great. Last big event we played to a big crowd(est 800) outdoors that featured an Elvis!

The Pr15's really reach out and IMO carry great sound across the EQ from crisp clear highs to smooth powerful lows. The lows are bolstered by the 18 inch subs. You have the flexibility to add monitors too as both mixers can split the amps dedicating one to mains and the other to monitors, each with their own EQ and gain controls.

Depending on club size I would venture that 4 Pr15's and 2 subs with the 8600 mixer and CS800s would absolutely rock the place.

I have demo'd Peavey's SP2's and SP4's. They carry more bottom end but IMO dont deliver the presence that the PR15's do for my taste.

This setup is easy to move around and pretty quick to set up. Naturally...I like it.

Ultimately I'd like 8 PR15's. That way I can run 4 off either mixer...4 off the CS800 along with 2 subs. I'd have 600 watts per each of the 4 channels.

For a DJ setup that does part time live acts it works great...

What are you using for a crossover?

 

[Already In Use]

What are you using for a crossover?

The Peavey subs have an internal crossover. Do I have something wrong going on?

 

[modulusman]

The Peavey subs have an internal crossover. Do I have something wrong going on?

Didn't know about the internal crossover. If you like your set-up and it works for you then great. I am just wondering why you would think 2 of those subs would keep up with 8 tops. For any bands that needed some thump you would be seriously screwed IMO.

 

[konodl18]

The Peavey subs have an internal crossover. Do I have something wrong going on?

Most rock bands are looking for lots of power and volume below the 100 to 120hz range.

Your system probably works very well for what you do and gives the type of sound the band is looking for.

For many of the bands on this forum, more subs and less tops is the setup of choice. It takes lots more power/speakers to keep the deep bass up to the level of tops with much less power.

If chest thumping kick drum is not for you, then neither is investing thousands in subs/amps/x-overs/processing.

Sounds like just a difference in what is acceptable and preffered.

Derek

 

[bikeplate]

HI

My PA for my new band is powerful and very portable. Two JBL eon powered 15's(the latest version), JBL eon powered sub(latest version), Yamaha O1V Dig. Board. Thats really it. We bring in whatever monitors we might need. I personally sing with one ear plug in and one out so I dont use a monitor. Our singer uses one, the Key player, and the drummer. My board has 4 Aux's so everyone is covered. The Yamaha board has built in effects, gates, etc. I really dont need effects or anything else. Im sure many would say its too simplistic but we sound great and I pretty much am able to mix on stage so no soundman. JBL eon stuff is great, imo!!

Rob

 

[bucephylus]

HI

My PA for my new band is powerful and very portable. Two JBL eon powered 15's(the latest version), JBL eon powered sub(latest version), Yamaha O1V Dig. Board. Thats really it. We bring in whatever monitors we might need. I personally sing with one ear plug in and one out so I dont use a monitor. Our singer uses one, the Key player, and the drummer. My board has 4 Aux's so everyone is covered. The Yamaha board has built in effects, gates, etc. I really dont need effects or anything else. Im sure many would say its too simplistic but we sound great and I pretty much am able to mix on stage so no soundman. JBL eon stuff is great, imo!!

Rob

Thanks Rob. One question: are you driving the bass primarily through FOH with this rig or with your own amp? Thanks.

 

[bucephylus]

For most bar situations with bands new to live sound I reccomend powered speakers. The QSC HPR, JBL PRX work great. With modern technology PA gear weighs alot less than it did in the past and is also cheaper. That being said if you want great sound you need to spend money. To many bands out there have Thousands invested in guitars and onstage amps and view the PA as an after thought. It is real easy to rack up $5-10,000.00 in a PA rig for a bar band.

Thanks MM. You seem to be correct, even if it isn't what I wanted to hear. I'm curious to see if there are any other solutions knocking around out there.

 

[konodl18]

Thanks MM. You seem to be correct, even if it isn't what I wanted to hear. I'm curious to see if there are any other solutions knocking around out there.

MM knows his stuff and is absolutely correct about the $ involved with a solid club PA. The best option is probably the Powered/light/awesome PA gear coming from companies like QSC and JBL.

The cheaper, but more heavy and less convenient option would be to find used gear of the same quality but in the traditional unpowered version. There is not alot of powered gear on the used market as its a relatively new thing at the bar/club level.

Good used gear can be found from those same companies; JBL, EV, QSC in the mixer->effect->amps->passive cabinets setup for much less.

Derek

 

[bikeplate]

HI

Your welcome. I use both my amp and the PA. This particular band is an 80's pop decade tribute. Lots of dance, keyboard driven pop. Madonna, Prince, etc. Also, we do alot of the early MTV hits and some 80s rock but no metal. I like the sound for this band to have the vox and keys on top and a strong bass presence, also. We just played the other night and I used a Tfunk amp and an Epifunky 2x10. Thats it!! Turned it up a bit and also ran a direct line thru the PA. The kick, bass, and keys take up the sub. The mix of the my amp and the sub really gives a cool overall sound. Here is a link. Our singers BF recorded this on her fone, I think!! Came out surprisingly well considering. You can hear that the bass is all there



The JBL eon subs are huge sounding. I only have one. I might get another for the summer when we gig outdoors but 2 would be ridiculous for most rooms. They are light(65lbs) and the mains are even lighter. You can carry each one with one hand, no problem. This way I didnt need to buy amps or crossovers. I think its a great system. Fast setup, too. Plus, the Yamaha board is like a computer. You can save your mix when u play the same club again. Show up, hit recall, pretty much ready to go.

Rob

 

[modulusman]

Thanks MM. You seem to be correct, even if it isn't what I wanted to hear. I'm curious to see if there are any other solutions knocking around out there.

I have used SP-2s before and they sounded pretty good. If you want to list the PA gear you are already using maybe some posters can come up with cheaper ideas to help you get a better sounding PA.

 

[Already In Use]

Didn't know about the internal crossover. If you like your set-up and it works for you then great. I am just wondering why you would think 2 of those subs would keep up with 8 tops. For any bands that needed some thump you would be seriously screwed IMO.

I havent run with 8 mains yet. That "wish" of mine, to have the 8 mains and 2 subs is mostly for the DJ set up. My Pa system is an ongoing project.

My reasoning regarding the subs is based on the fact that the CS800S can go down to 2ohms so I figured having 4 mains and 2 subs on 2 channels will let that amp stretch its legs. Do you think I will run out of head room? Do you think I'm chasing a silly idea?

In a few weeks I'll know how good it works. Got a bit to play on 2/20.

 

[modulusman]

I havent run with 8 mains yet. That "wish" of mine, to have the 8 mains and 2 subs is mostly for the DJ set up. My Pa system is an ongoing project.

My reasoning regarding the subs is based on the fact that the CS800S can go down to 2ohms so I figured having 4 mains and 2 subs on 2 channels will let that amp stretch its legs. Do you think I will run out of head room? Do you think I'm chasing a silly idea?

In a few weeks I'll know how good it works. Got a bit to play on 2/20.

I am not a DJ but I always assumed that DJs liked lots of low end so I think you would be better off with 4 subs and 2 tops. I don't know what the specs are on the CS800s since they are no longer made. I would be concerned about running the amp at 2 ohms because of its age.

 

[walterw]

I am not a DJ but I always assumed that DJs liked lots of low end so I think you would be better off with 4 subs and 2 tops. I don't know what the specs are on the CS800s since they are no longer made. I would be concerned about running the amp at 2 ohms because of its age.

+1 to all of this.

more tops than subs is backwards, as it typically takes more speakers, and always takes more power, for low end to keep up with high end. also, unless they're specifically designed and very carefully arranged, multiple top boxes next to each other sound terrible, as they cancel each other's frequencies and turn the sound to loud mush.

now, are we talking about some sort of internal passive crossover in these subs? (i.e., speaker cables run from amps to unpowered subs, and from subs to unpowered tops?) if so, you're losing a lot of your output power.

a real crossover before the amps, so that the tops only get above say, 100Hz and the subs only get below that, each from their own amp channels, will give you a lot more clarity and power.

and running an amp at 2 ohms/side is not "stretching its legs", it's slamming it to the wall! better amps can handle it, but it's still hard on them.

 

[walterw]

(to the OP) powered stuff is indeed killer, but don't look past nice unpowered. yorkville makes good speakers for clubland, and QSC makes really good amps. i would suggest 1 15"+horn top box, and 2 18" speakers per side for subs, powered by at least 3-400 watts per speaker.

i'm using a pair of yorkie elite E15s and 4 elite ls608s, with each box getting about 700 watts of QSC power. it works nicely in club/bar world, loud and clean without over-taxing the amps or the speakers.

i like the 1x15" top box instead of the 2x15" idea because i can lift them without killing myself, and more importantly, i can put them on poles to get the horns over peoples heads (critical to getting good sound in the back of the room).