Enjoy the benefits of a premium membership!
Upgrade Account
-
TalkBass has been independent since 1998. Add your voice.
Create a free account to reply to discussions, view embedded media, and browse with fewer display ads.
Join free Log in
Want zero display ads or expanded classifieds tools? Compare plans.
Pre CBS '63' P Bass Help
- Thread starter ChetChetney
- Start date
Yeah that is a challenge. I have two '64 Precisions, a refin I purchased from a friend who let me test drive it for the weekend before deciding to buy. That is as ideal as it gets. The other (my first one) was purchased from Elderly Instruments in Lansing MI sight unseen and based entirely from their website photos and telephone discussions with their tech. So I was putting my trust in Elderly's reputation as a dealer and what their guitar tech was telling me in our calls. Turned out it was indeed a great bass. After the purchase I found out the bass was being sold at Elderly on consignment from a TB member and we chatted afterwards about his experience with it, and another TB member who had played the bass at Elderly told me how much he loved it. So I ended up with two really good basses, one I tried beforehand and the other I relied on others. You're in the second camp with this one -- I don't know this seller but sounds like others do. That's part of the calculation you'll have to make. The price is another matter -- seems high for a refin to me. Check completed listings on Reverb and other places and see if that's indeed what the current market is. I know prices are up but this price seems more like an original finish than refin price to me.
It's too expensive for a refinish. If you're going to spend big like that, just get the best all original one you can find, even if it's not as clean. For not much more, you could get a totally original one, and have a bass that will gain value significantly over the years, whether you play it or not.
Last edited:
So our of curiosity and for my knowledge as I search for a vintage P - what’s a generalized fair price for a refinished ‘63 P like this one? Also, how about for an all original ‘63 P with original finish?
If you have to ask this question here, you are not in a good position, knowledge-wise, to be spending that kind of money on an old instrument.
I urge you to step back and take your time. Explore, learn, shop for a year or two, and watch like a hawk to see things entering and leaving the market, before taking the plunge on something of that caliber.
Prices on "vintage" gear are hard to pin down. They vary greatly depending on ORIGINALITY (far and away THE most important factor), condition, and special features. An instrument with as dramatic a modification as a body refinish is, often times, only worth the sum of its parts. I.e. What's the neck worth, the electronics, the guard, the hardware, the refinished body, etc.
And remember that you rarely see the actual going price of a piece of vintage equipment – but you can safely assume that it's almost certainly 10 to 30 percent below sticker/asking price.
If you want to know what I personally would spend on that bass (which isn't that useful of a bit of information), IF I wanted it (and I don't)...the price that would make me start to think about wanting it would be about $4K. And if I played it and it blew me away, I might be nudged up to $5K. Personally, I just don't see much appeal in a refin, even as an every-day player. Why go vintage at all if it isn't original? The originality is what you're paying a premium for in the first place, not any particular specs, tone, etc.
Last edited:
the best place is Reverb and historical sales of the yr/model , being a refin. makes it a lot harder to price check 62-64-65 yrs as well , right now prices are way UP , my 1963 strat refin. I paid $9300 just 4 yrs ago , I can get almost $20k for it now !!! just saying.
I appreciate it but I just posed the question to this community - I have about 2 years of market research. I’ve got my 2 values fur each of those cases - was curious what TB’ers thought. Thanks
Most of the truly great vintage instruments trade hands privately; they don't need to sit in a dealer's shop for months or years. Go to any of the big public guitar shows and you'll see literally hundreds and thousands of overpriced, ho hum boring old instruments that were never great and are never going to be great...so they find an outlet for the hype and go to big name shops.
I visited a big name shop in downtown Seattle last week that outside literally looked like I was going to make a crack deal or piss in the doorstep, where everything was obscenely overpriced and they instantly told me that I was not allowed to touch any instrument; I was only allowed to watch some wanker salesperson bang three bar chords out of tune and tell me how the second cousin of the roadie from Nirvana owned it for two months in 1983.....
If you want to estimate the prices that they trade for privately- take the dealer prices and instantly remove 30-40% fees for commission, another 3-6% for bank fees and transfers, and then on top of that if it is over $600 now the IRS wants to take 25% from whatever is left. SO....that $8500 Reverb advertised instrument gets about $4k in the owner's hand- a reasonable price for the age and model, before he splits that in half with his wife (or multiple times for multiple ex wives!). We have an industry that relies on the hype and "mojo" of old guitars that has evolved into something similar to art galleries. The whole purpose is an industry created to make maximum money for the gallery owners, not for you as the seller, buyer, or artist....
I visited a big name shop in downtown Seattle last week that outside literally looked like I was going to make a crack deal or piss in the doorstep, where everything was obscenely overpriced and they instantly told me that I was not allowed to touch any instrument; I was only allowed to watch some wanker salesperson bang three bar chords out of tune and tell me how the second cousin of the roadie from Nirvana owned it for two months in 1983.....
If you want to estimate the prices that they trade for privately- take the dealer prices and instantly remove 30-40% fees for commission, another 3-6% for bank fees and transfers, and then on top of that if it is over $600 now the IRS wants to take 25% from whatever is left. SO....that $8500 Reverb advertised instrument gets about $4k in the owner's hand- a reasonable price for the age and model, before he splits that in half with his wife (or multiple times for multiple ex wives!). We have an industry that relies on the hype and "mojo" of old guitars that has evolved into something similar to art galleries. The whole purpose is an industry created to make maximum money for the gallery owners, not for you as the seller, buyer, or artist....
Last edited:
I agree that it's over priced. You could most likely find a '63 or '64 in sunburst that's all original for that $.
Thanks for your thoughts. But, I already have a Fodera and a NYC Sadowsky - I’m looking for a pre CBS vintage P.
Attachments
Thus there is the rub. A used bass has it's character as do new instruments. With vintage, mojo is implied. With new, you the player, start the mojo journey.
I have had decent luck with new Fender basses. I gig quite a lot and my reasons for new are simply; I like an instrument unused by anyone else. It has a warranty, and I have ALL the tags and proof of original ownership, IF I ever decide to sell.
However, buying a classic Fender is to own the legend in real time. Getting the tone, notes and playing joy out of them may be the same experience as a musician who prefers and plays new. Since one can own a Fender from many different eras, why not? People spend similar dollars pursuing tone, vibe, feel, etc. from the numerous makers out there.
It's such a subjective choice it's impossible for any of us on this forum to make your decision. As helpful as many suggestions are. We ALL only have experiences in similar buying situations but no 2 are alike.
As time has gone on, I love looking at, even trying out classic Fenders. I'm still drawn to buy new IF, I needed to. There are likely exceptions. I just haven't had the A or B opportunity to choose when I was specifically shopping for a bass to fill a particular void.
Price seems out of line for a refinished "P" with a re-fret. For that price, you should be able to find an early 60's P with an original finish (even if beat up a bit; and probably a sunburst) in my experience. Just have to keep looking. That's half the fun.
If you're looking to verify vintage specs, "The Fender Bass: An Illustrated History" is an exceptional resource - showing how individual parts (bridges, headstock labels, pot coding, neck coding, tuning pegs) changed year to year: https://www.amazon.com/Fender-Bass-Illustrated-History/dp/0634026402
I can say (I have a 63 P and a 64 J) the pre-CBS instruments are very, very special - both tone and playability. They are worth the wait and will put a smile on your face from the moment you start playing.
If you're looking to verify vintage specs, "The Fender Bass: An Illustrated History" is an exceptional resource - showing how individual parts (bridges, headstock labels, pot coding, neck coding, tuning pegs) changed year to year: https://www.amazon.com/Fender-Bass-Illustrated-History/dp/0634026402
I can say (I have a 63 P and a 64 J) the pre-CBS instruments are very, very special - both tone and playability. They are worth the wait and will put a smile on your face from the moment you start playing.
As an Amazon Associate, TalkBass may receive commissions from qualifying purchases made via links on this site.
Agreed. I have a '64 P and feel the same way. Keep up your search til you find the right one! Don't rush it, or settle.
As an Amazon Associate, TalkBass may receive commissions from qualifying purchases made via links on this site.
Yeah at that price it should be all original with some nice player wear and tear at the very least
No comment on the price, but there is definitely collector value there despite the devaluing refin factor. It would be better if the original finish was also Fiesta Red, but that's highly unlikely. Custom Colors like Fiesta from that era normally came with a white pickguard, not tort. Chances are that bass was originally sunburst. A small thing, but worth noting when valuing old Fenders, where the tiniest, most anal retentive details can mean something. Not crazy about the quality of the refin job, either. A proper refret doesn't hurt vintage value, contrary to popular belief. Maybe deduct some points for the ratty case condition, but it's kinda lucky to have the orig case at all, so...
