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Preamp+Power Amp vs Amp Head? Pls help!

B

booch

Aug 12, 2004
91
0
#1
Hi

Although I've been playing for quite a time now I live in a country where it's very hard to get decent gear. So I never could try a lot of amp heads or amp + cab combinations.

Can please one of the gurus explain what is the advantage of using a Preamp+Poweramp combination instead of an amp head? I am really bad at this stuff... Also, if you can, please give examples of actual combinations you use.

Thanks a lot!
 
#4
Hey booch, you have every right to post your own thread (and continue this one) on this subject. If all new Talk Bass threads were reduced to trully unique subjects, we'd only have one or possibly two a week and this forum would soon become a pretty boring place. The only thing you need to delete is your last post...

With that said, you'll find serveral threads (and lots of info) dedicated to this subject by scanning through the titles of this search: http://www.google.com/custom?domain...;S:http://www.talkbass.com;LP:1;FORID:1&hl=en

I think the biggest advantage of rack-rigs are the ability to replace/add individual components as you needs (or desires) change.
 
#5
Booch,

The ability to change rack componets is a plus. I have a Sans Amp RBI preamp, Peavy 900 poweramp, Fender rack Tuner and a BBE Crossover , and a ART Power supply in my rack driving an Ampeg 1-15 cab and a Ampeg 4-10 cab. Sometimes I run the crossover and sometimes I don't. I may end up getting an Ampeg SVT Pro Preamp one day. Having a rack tuner is a BIG Plus for me, not so much with some players. It really depends on what sound you are after I guess. There are pros and cons to both systems. If I had the Money I'd have a reissue Ampeg SVT head and 8-10 cab with a pedal tuner and be done with it.

Barry
 
#6
Laserman said:
Booch,

The ability to change rack componets is a plus. I have a Sans Amp RBI preamp, Peavy 900 poweramp, Fender rack Tuner and a BBE Crossover , and a ART Power supply in my rack driving an Ampeg 1-15 cab and a Ampeg 4-10 cab. Sometimes I run the crossover and sometimes I don't. I may end up getting an Ampeg SVT Pro Preamp one day. Having a rack tuner is a BIG Plus for me, not so much with some players. It really depends on what sound you are after I guess. There are pros and cons to both systems. If I had the Money I'd have a reissue Ampeg SVT head and 8-10 cab with a pedal tuner and be done with it.

Barry
Click to expand...

The converse is true for me. I wouldn't have any Ampeg product at any price! Same applies to any other maker of bass specific amplification. If you buy a bass "head" you are stuck with the tone you get from it. The pre/power route is so much more versatile.

If you need more or even less power change out the power amp.
You don't like the tone you are getting change out your pre.

Currently I use a Carvin DCM1000 power amp that I love. My pre is a BBE B Max-T. It's a great pre-amp but I now dislike the Fenderesque tone stack. I am going to replace the BBE with something else. To do the same with a head you would have to replace the entire amplifier.

Paul
 
#7
BassmanPaul said:
If you buy a bass "head" you are stuck with the tone you get from it. The pre/power route is so much more versatile.
Click to expand...

+1

I've gone through several - including the previously mentioned Ampeg stuff, an Eden WT (for two gigs), a Peavey Mark VIII, and a Markbass LMII. The only thing I can say in the positive is that they're consistent - you want that tone, you'll get it every time.

I finally switched to the BBE BMax pre and QSC power amp combo because I know I'll want to upgrade eventually, and plan on not spending nearly as much as I would have if I were to go through a few more heads.

Plus, though it's certainly my experience, having your gear in a rack case keeps it somewhat safer.
 
#8
Thanks guys for the actual examples! This really helps a lot as I have trouble finding a tone I really like.

As I mentioned, here I don't have a lot of possibilities to actually try amps. Most of the amp makers don't even have dealers here (or the dealers have nothing in stock, they have to order everything).
So I'm stuck with Internet reviews and ordering amps thru the Internet... I already bought an Aguilar DB750 (used) and a EA iAmp800 like this, but something is always missing.

Please keep the actual combinations you use coming!
 
#9
I agree with earlier posts. It's the ability to swap pre-amps that I like. I have and still use the BBE B-Max a bit, but prefer the ART tube channel. Mine is a full-width 1 rack unit sized pre-amp with 3 12ax7 tubes (gain, EQ, and compression). However, it was discontinued quite some time ago.

[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]

I like the sound of the Demeter pre-amps, and also the Fender TBP-1. I use a Tech21 Sansamp ParaDI for my upright, and the fiddle player in a band I play with uses it as a violin pre-amp!

I suggest Basstasters.com, for a chance to hear clips of assorted gear. Bring a good set of headphones. :cool:
 
#10
The only problem I have found with having a rack set up vs a head is the weight. Well, that and once I started a rack my GAS budget had to be increased to fill the rack. If you can find a head that has the sound and power you want, by all means, go for it--you can always use it with a rack later if you desire. Personally, I am using a Line 6 BassPod XT Pro (which I could not be happier with) along with a Fender tuner, ART compressor, BBE Sonic Maximizer, and Crown Power Amp. Good luck in your hunt.
 
#11
two things come to mind:
you can use whatever preamp you want with the same power amp.
if you're a gear-a-holic like me, it's fun to change preamps out;)

the other thing is:
with a qsc 1602, or 2402, you've got just plain stupid amounts of power on hand. you can bridge it all into one high rated cab, put each side into it's own cab, full range or bi-ampo'd if the preamp allows that...
or, run you bass off one side, and the pa/monitors of the other.

i'm sure there's a lot of other reasons too.

a downside is, you're generally looking at four spaces with pre/power; more if you want a tuner, power conditioner, etc.

something like a wt800, thunderfunk, mesa, can take just two spaces depending if you need tuner/power conditioner, etc.
 
#12
The biggest thing for me is cabinet flexibility -- my pre/power rig can handle any combination of cabs at any ohmage, whereas my old GK 1001 RB II could handle one 4 ohm, one 8 ohm, or two 8 ohm cabs and that was it.

For about the same price my crown + my soon to arrive Gk 2001RBP will be able to handle up to 8 8 ohm cabs or 4 4 ohm cabs, and any combination pretty much.

Having a rack tuner and the ability to add rack effects, or another power amp, or whatever, is also hugely awesome. Heck I could also add a cabinet selector if I wanted ;)

Much happier with the rack rig so far.
 
#13
Here's another thing to consider:
You can get the "regular head" of your choice-say Thunderfunk, Eden, Mesa or whatever-and rackmount a power amp under it.
Take a send out of it to the added poweramp for when you need "mega power, or mega-more-cabs" but want to keep the tone of your favorite head...

The Thunderfunk preamp out into a Crest CA9 is devastating.
 
#14
Jim Carr said:
I agree with earlier posts. It's the ability to swap pre-amps that I like. I have and still use the BBE B-Max a bit, but prefer the ART tube channel. Mine is a full-width 1 rack unit sized pre-amp with 3 12ax7 tubes (gain, EQ, and compression). However, it was discontinued quite some time ago.

[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]

I like the sound of the Demeter pre-amps, and also the Fender TBP-1. I use a Tech21 Sansamp ParaDI for my upright, and the fiddle player in a band I play with uses it as a violin pre-amp!

I suggest Basstasters.com, for a chance to hear clips of assorted gear. Bring a good set of headphones. :cool:
Click to expand...

I too have the ART Tube Channel and I am reverting to it. A lot of players use mic specific pres for bass and most do work well. Once you hace your power amp you can even use an ART Tube MP $40 and EQ from your bass if you have active controls. I used one for a while when I first bought my Carvin power amp and it worked well.

Paul
 
#15
+1 for the pre/power amp.

I have a light amp (Stewart World - 600 watts into 4 ohms @ 10 lbs)
and a heavy amp (Carvin HD - 900 watts into 4 ohms @ 27 lbs)

which I can combine with any of 4 preamps:
Aguilar DB 659 (tube)
BBE Bmax (SS)
Art Pro Channel (Tube)
Zoom B2 (SS)

Each preamp weighs less than 10 pounds.
I can put together a light rig less than 30 pounds
(cases weigh around 12lbs) or I can go heavy (around 45lbs).

Being able to combine the various combinations keeps it interesting sonically...
 
#16
I use a Tech 21 Sansamp RBI preamp with a Crown CE1000 power amp. The only two amp sounds I'm trying to achieve are Ampeg SVT and Fender Bassman. The RBI emulates both of these amps quite well, IMHO. I usually run the CE1000 bridged into a single 4 ohm Schroeder 1212R. If I feel the need to move more air I unbridge the amp, parallel the input and drive the Schroeder with one side and a Carvin 4 ohm 1x15 with the other side.

I will probably replace the Crown CE1000 with one of the newer lightweight power amps sometime in the next year or two. Whatever I replace it with has to have the same specs: 1000 watts bridged mono into a 4 ohm load and 2 x 400 watts stereo (or more) into 4 ohms.
 
#17
Hey

Thanks for all the feedback!
So basically, I should get a decent power amp so it can handle whatever loads, and I should pick preamps for the sound (hence these are responsible for the color of the sound).

For a power amp, a lot of guys seem to use Carvin and QSC. Any characteristics I should take into consideration when buying a power amp?

About preamps: I really like a clean, strong sound (like the Aguilar DB750... I had a MM Stingray bass and an Eden 212XLT cab at the time I had one and I did not like the sound. Now, playing a DB750 thru an Aguilar GS410 and my Spector Euro, I realize the DB750 is a great amp but I've already sold it :()
Can you guys suggest a preamp like that? I tried to find the above mentioned Aguilar preamp (659?) on Aguilar's website but it is not listed anymore (only the AGRO is listed as a reack mount preamp)
 
#18
The DB680 wa discontinued some time ago; the 659 is still in production.
There was one of each in classifieds, last time I checked.
Expect the 680 to run ~850, the 659 around $650...

There ain't nothin' wrong with the DB750. Plenty of power, and if the tone suits you, there's really no reason not to use it.
It's 2 ohm ready, so you can run damn near whatever combination of cabs you would ever need with it.
 
#19
Yeah, now I realize that the DB750 is good, but I used it with an Eden 212XLT and I thought the ugly midrange boost (at least, ugly for me) was coming from the amp. So I sold it... Man was I stupid...
 
#20
Two advantages to the pre/power route:

The quality of components that are used in high-end preamps tend to be better quality than those used in most heads. (there are exceptions to this rule)

The power amps used tend to be heavy-duty, high powered beasts that are designed to be abused for months at a time while traveling around the world.

Advantage to using a head:

Generally lighter weight and far more compact package.
 

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