Pregnant Smokers

[dbhokie]

You can tell me everything you know and this is teh interw3b, but I've got 10 years of experience and the degree. People can post studies, it's folks like me who treat the people in those studies. Aight? So, what do I know about smokers?? You in your experiences trumps 10 years of experience and a degree, eh?

It's people like you who twist things because of their agenda's to fit what they want. Smoking may be bad for you, but so is a whole host of other things, take care of your own life and stop invading others.

I don't care if you hate smokers, or smoking or what it does to people and it is your personal crusade. You have that right, just as I do to combat the unbelievable amount of mis-information and emotional babble out there about smoking.

What you have just said is quite common with people on the internet. Oh yeah I did this and so I know, and I have this experience. That may work with practical matters, but not with statistical and health matters where you are not God and you do not know everything going on, you just see through your own lenses just as I do. I know people with far more experience than you, and more degrees, does that make you wrong and them right? It's a logical fallacy to head that direction. I love how people treat subjects now, oh yeah I have a degree, that gives me authority. School systems are a whole other can of worms.

As for smoking and health effects, I have had quite a lot more experience than you. I have been a smoker for 17 years, and been around smokers for just as long. I am quite familiar with the health effects at this stage. My time working at a DME made me quite familiar with the effects at an elderly age as well.

I'm about to light up on my way to lunch, and trust me, I'll enjoy it thoroughly. Though if your assertions prove true, at least I'll be off your hands at an earlier date. Though if history proves true as it tends to, I have a much higher chance of living long than not, despite being a smoker. I'll take my cards as they are dealt, I'll enjoy smoking every day I can.

You want a good anti-smoking fellow, look at Michael Siegel. He actually takes a factual approach to it.

 

[spade2you]

It's people like you who twist things because of their agenda's to fit what they want.

I have not twisted anything. I have zero need to do so. It's called field experience.

However, you are free to twist the data to suit your needs? Hell interw3b pot smokers post BS studies to the point that it's an art form.

 

[GregC]

I have spoken at length about these studies in other threads, and the funny things people don't pay attention to. (Like that for infant deaths if the mother smoked virtually 100% were arbitrarily attributed to smoking completely in the Surgeon General's report, oddly enough he is on a board of a pharmaceutical company that makes Billions from smoking cessation products).

Are you sure about that? The current Surgeon General is a woman appointed 18 months ago.
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[GregC]

There are studies that show the sun to be more harmful to babies than cigarettes through prolonged uv exposure, as well as tanning dangers. Studies that show you should never have carpet in a Baby's room. Studies that show you should not have raw juices, that you shouldn't eat any meat under well-done..there are thousands everywhere.

Ah, the old "some studies are bogus or shaky, so I'm going to disregard all the ones that don't suit my beliefs no matter how rigorous or how many times they've been done" approach. Haven't seen that since the last smoking thread.

 

[GregC]

As I said above, Mark Twain sums up my thoughts nicely.

I'm a Twain fan, but that particular essay has a whole bunch of nonsense in it.

 

[Quickie]

Well I am all for dealing with that as well. I want the rights and I don't want any taxpayer's help or government's help.

This makes no sense. The Government GAVE you your "rights". They also help you keep them.

Get rid of the government....and you will loose some or most of your rights.

And since there are a disturbing amount of people that think like you out there, good luck EVER having to have to depend or need someone's help......

 

[john turner]

There is no solid information pertaining to low levels of smoking and pregnancy. What you need to do is mind your own business, and forget about trying to legislate and control another person's life.

a speedy google reveals :
[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]

listed are, among a lot of other things, a link to a study exposing the fact that the nicotine levels in the fetus and amniotic fluid can surpass those in the mother :

Fetal toxicology of environmental tobacco smoke. [Curr Opin Pediatr. 1995] - PubMed result​

showing that even "a light smoker"/passive smoker is going to expose their fetus to higher levels of nicotine than they themselves experience.

nicotine and cotinine in any amount have been shown to have adverse effects both on fetuses and children - here's one study showing the effects on brain development in rhesus monkey fetuses and young.

Link Removed

this was actually a followup study done by the same people exploring some correlations they had seen in rats. of course, rhesus monkeys are better candidates for these studies since they are more genetically similar to humans than rats are (sharing ~93% of their genome with chimps and humans).

 

[LowDown Hal]

Do you know what the leading cause of asthma in children is? It's cockroach feces. Maybe mandatory pest control should be implemented.

I'm in favor of just about anything that is cleaning up cockroach feces

 

[dbhokie]

Are you sure about that? The current Surgeon General is a woman appointed 18 months ago.
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I was referencing the last shs study purported by the SG, pfizer and pfizer by the way. Good look increasing your Google skills

 

[dbhokie]

Ah, the old "some studies are bogus or shaky, so I'm going to disregard all the ones that don't suit my beliefs no matter how rigorous or how many times they've been done" approach. Haven't seen that since the last smoking thread.

You take a lot of liberty to suit yourself in your interpretations.

t no point did I say they are all bogus. Smoking is harmful to you, many studies use meta-analysis and poor methods to exaggerate these dangers especially with shs.

 

[Metal Matt]

I don't smoke cigarettes, think they are terrible, that they kill people, etc... etc... That said, it's none of my business to tell anyone what to do with their own body. If you want to kill yourself with cigarettes, I don't care, that's your stupid decision to make. As long as you're not blowing smoke in my face, it does not matter to me.

 

[dbhokie]

a speedy google reveals :
[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]

listed are, among a lot of other things, a link to a study exposing the fact that the nicotine levels in the fetus and amniotic fluid can surpass those in the mother :

Fetal toxicology of environmental tobacco smoke. [Curr Opin Pediatr. 1995] - PubMed result​

showing that even "a light smoker"/passive smoker is going to expose their fetus to higher levels of nicotine than they themselves experience.

nicotine and cotinine in any amount have been shown to have adverse effects both on fetuses and children - here's one study showing the effects on brain development in rhesus monkey fetuses and young.

Link Removed

this was actually a followup study done by the same people exploring some correlations they had seen in rats. of course, rhesus monkeys are better candidates for these studies since they are more genetically similar to humans than rats are (sharing ~93% of their genome with chimps and humans).

I will respond to these shortly. I never never said there aren't adverse effects, though these studies do exaggerate them as I will show. It is just not your business to tell someone not to.

Personally if my wife was pregnant I would encourage her to lower her smoking drastically or quit, and I would try to do the same to encourage her. It is not your business though and certainly not your plqce to look.down your nose at her. There are plenty of other harmful things she may be avoiding, which is not a reason to continue, but as I said remove the plank from your own eye

 

[spade2you]

You take a lot of liberty to suit yourself in your interpretations.

I thought you believed in liberty.

 

[dbhokie]

This makes no sense. The Government GAVE you your "rights". They also help you keep them.

Get rid of the government....and you will loose some or most of your rights.

And since there are a disturbing amount of people that think like you out there, good luck EVER having to have to depend or need someone's help......

Wow, where did you get that. I never said govt wasn't necessary. I don't believe anarchy is possible. I just simply don't receive or desire their help in my healthcare, social choices, and way of living. I think they should exist with few rights and powers and the states and people with innumerable.

You guys are really good at making something out of nothing and twisting words

 

[dbhokie]

I thought you believed in liberty.

I do and so does he even though they have completely different semantical context

 

[tZer]

Here's a little story for you guys:

I started my work experience on Monday. Yesterday, I got of the bus at 9:30am but my work starts at 10, so I walked around town for a bit. I got a drink from the shop and when I was in the queue, there was an obviously pregnant women in front of me. She walks up to the counter and asks the man for a 20 pack of some cigs (Richmond? I cant remember) and the man gave her a pretty dirty look. The women said "Oh, don't worry these aren't for me, they're for my boyfriend. I wouldn't dare smoke when I'm pregnant!". She bought the cigs then left. On the way to my work, I saw the exact same women sitting on a bench, smoking a cigarette! I felt like going over and saying something (of course, I didn't, I'm not that type of person)

What are you views on these people? Have you ever encountered something similar to this? I just felt the need to share this story

1) She clearly has a guilty conscience about what she's doing otherwise why lie to the store clerk?

2) She's not above lying to a store clerk even though it's entirely unnecessary.

So based on your story, my views are that she's pregnant, she knows smoking is potentially harmful to her unborn baby, she's a liar and a smoker.

If I knew her well enough to have a frank conversation with her, I'd take up the subject with her respectfully.

Otherwise I'd have to leave her to deal with the consequences of her own choices.

 

[GregC]

I have spoken at length about these studies in other threads, and the funny things people don't pay attention to. (Like that for infant deaths if the mother smoked virtually 100% were arbitrarily attributed to smoking completely in the Surgeon General's report, oddly enough he is on a board of a pharmaceutical company that makes Billions from smoking cessation products).

Are you sure about that? The current Surgeon General is a woman appointed 18 months ago.
Invalid Link Removed

I was referencing the last shs study purported by the SG, pfizer and pfizer by the way. Good look increasing your Google skills

You have no basis for speaking snarkily about my "Google skills". Name the current or former SG who sits on the board of Pfizer and show the proof.

ETA: And while you're at it, how much does Pfizer make per year off of smoking-cessation products? This is a company with more than $65 billion in revenues last year. I bet smoking cessation is a pretty small piece of the pie.

 

[KwinS]

You're more than welcome to not support your points with actual statistics.

Just for a note - the plural of anecdote is not evidence.

Nothing anecdotal about it. I didn't tell you any stories about anything I've seen. It's called evidence-based practice.

 

[WalterBush]

This makes no sense. The Government GAVE you your "rights". They also help you keep them.

Get rid of the government....and you will loose some or most of your rights.

Slightly OT here, or not. I would strongly urge, before making statements like the above, a quick re-read of some important documents. Here's a convenient link:

Declaration of Independence (Preamble)

On topic, this is easily the most interesting discussion on smoking I've seen on TB.

 

[L-A]

I'm in favor of just about anything that is cleaning up cockroach feces

That's a pretty sound decision. I support you.