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Princess Boy

#21
Dr. Cheese said:
I do believe clothing is choice, not a genetic imprint. As I have said before, if he chooses to dress that way after he is old enough to understand the significance of choices, cool. Putting a child in clothing that fits traditional gender roles at least lts him learn cultural norms and expectations.

I guess I feel this is like improvisation: know the rules before you break them.
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Pretty much this. Parents force their kids to do things they don't like because their brains aren't developed enough to foresee the consequences of their actions. I doubt the kid understands "gender identity" yet, he's not even pubescent. Parents who let their kids do whatever the hell they want fail, hard. If he wanted to go everywhere dressed like a Nazi because he thinks swastikas look cool would that be ok? We may decry the other kids who'll mock and torture him for this, but pretending like they don't exist is silly. Protecting your children from themselves is a big part of being a parent.

Edit: a think a lot of people are confusing "little kid who wants to play dress up 24/7" with "budding homosexual" and trying to turn this into some horrible oppression. Kids want to dress in socially inappropriate clothes all the time. Some friends of mine have a little boy who pitched a fit about wearing his dinosaur costume everywhere he went for a while. Parents said no, kid seems to be fine. Again, this isn't a kid expressing his sexual preferences and being smacked down. It's a kid wanting to dress outside of societal norms. Regardless of how you feel about those societal norms, pretending they aren't there is a disservice to your kid.
 
#22
buchananbass said:
For the record it’s my opinion that I could have had been beaten by my peers all through out my schooling as a child and been far less traumatized then I am today from having my parents tell me that who I was, was wrong.
Hell I should know as I still got the crap beat out of me for trying to be something I was not.
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He's 5. He doesn't know who he is and shouldn't make do things that could affect him for the rest of his life.
 
#24
onosson said:
This isn't about letting the kid do whatever he wants, or falling for temper tantrums. He's choosing to do something that causes no harm or offence to anyone. He will also very likely stop wanting to do it sometime in the near future - he's a kid, they change quickly.

Parents who don't choose their battles fail hard, too.
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Kid is getting national media coverage that'll follow him for the rest of his life. The internet never forgets. You want a five year old to make life altering choices? You think he understands the ramifications of his actions, that he is capable of understanding them?
 
#25
Balog said:
Kid is getting national media coverage that'll follow him for the rest of his life. The internet never forgets. You want a five year old to make life altering choices? You think he understands the ramifications of his actions, that he is capable of understanding them?
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Well I agree with you there - taking her kid on national tv is a dumb move, much dumber than letting him wear a dress!
 
#27
First of all gender identity and sexual orientation are not the same.
Second yes it is entirely possible that a five year old has a dam good idea of what gender they most identify with.
Now as far as the letting your child do whatever they want vs. forcing your child to act appropriately in order to protect them from potential harm.
What’s wrong with warning them instead?
If they act against you and are consequently hurt enough times you can be dam sure that the next advice out your mouth will be taken seriously and followed.
The only exceptions to this would be for instance if your child wants to go jump off a bridge.
 
#29
buchananbass said:
First of all gender identity and sexual orientation are not the same.
Second yes it is entirely possible that a five year old has a dam good idea of what gender they most identify with.
Now as far as the letting your child do whatever they want vs. forcing your child to act appropriately in order to protect them from potential harm.
What’s wrong with warning them instead?
If they act against you and are consequently hurt enough times you can be dam sure that the next advice out your mouth will be taken seriously and followed.
The only exceptions to this would be for instance if your child wants to go jump off a bridge.
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This is the path I started to tread down, then quickly realized the audience by some of the replies, and decided it's not really worth my time...
 
#32
Ray Salamon said:
Not about getting mad or not, but basic ignorance to the topic of sexual identity versus gender, social "norms" that are imposed universally etc. etc.
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Social norms, imposed in the society the kid lives in. Bit of a diff, there.

But, you know, "ya'll are too stupid to understand why you're wrong so I won't bother correcting you" is always a good argument. :rollno:
 
#33
Balog said:
Social norms, imposed in the society the kid lives in. Bit of a diff, there.

But, you know, "ya'll are too stupid to understand why you're wrong so I won't bother correcting you" is always a good argument. :rollno:
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So, let me understand the viewpoint here:
The child has a penis (presumably), therefore he must be male, identify as a male, and therefore be everything that our lovely society says that a male must be?
 
#34
It's definitely messed up that she went on national Tv with it.
Other than that, as I said before I think it's just fine if he wants to wear it around the house constantly. Outside the house is different, because the same as we wouldn't think it appropriate for any child to wear a costume of any sort outside of the house all the time, it shouldn't be acceptable here either.
My opinion.
 
#35
Mikaela Ellinger said:
It's definitely messed up that she went on national Tv with it.
Other than that, as I said before I think it's just fine if he wants to wear it around the house constantly. Outside the house is different, because the same as we wouldn't think it appropriate for any child to wear a costume of any sort outside of the house all the time, it shouldn't be acceptable here either.
My opinion.
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Fast forward a bunch of years... the child is now 18. Do we still have to say that they then need to wear "male" clothes? Why? (I'm certain most/all will say no to that) If not, why is it different at that age than the current age? Do we feel the need to protect the child that much from others who are perhaps closed minded? What does that have to say about society?
 
#36
Ray Salamon said:
Fast forward a bunch of years... the child is now 18. Do we still have to say that they then need to wear "male" clothes? Why? (I'm certain most/all will say no to that) If not, why is it different at that age than the current age? Do we feel the need to protect the child that much from others who are perhaps closed minded? What does that have to say about society?
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I'm not sure where your questions are from, here.. I believe the child has every right to wear a princess dress around the home, or whatever he'd like but he's still a child and when he's 18 if he goes about wearing a "princess" outfit, he will inevitably be considered weird or whatever, but that's his choice then and he will understand the consequences then. While our children are young, it is our responsibility as a parent to try to make the best choices for them, while they don't understand the consequences. I'm not saying it's right that he would have to not wear it outside, but at the same time as others have pointed out here, it wouldn't be acceptable to wear a swimsuit constantly or any other costume constantly.
Now, if it were my child I'd still allow him to wear it to the mall or to the store or whatever, if that's what he pleases and definitely around the house but not 24/7. There's a time and place for everything and school isn't a place for a child to be wearing a costume. It's a distraction for the child himself and for those around him.
imo.
 
#37
Big deal. Some kids like to dress up - I did. My mom used to take me around town dressed up as all kinds of things: a ninja, a hockey player, a Roman soldier. Once I took a three hour train trip wearing a turban with face covering the whole way and, yes, I had my own dress. Funny, it was never a problem (except with some of the more uptight parents in the neighbourhood) and as an adult I have absolutely no desire to dress up, even on Halloween (interesting how many adults like dressing up on Halloween - maybe their imaginations were repressed during childhood...).
 
#38
Mikaela Ellinger said:
I'm not sure where your questions are from, here.. I believe the child has every right to wear a princess dress around the home, or whatever he'd like but he's still a child and when he's 18 if he goes about wearing a "princess" outfit, he will inevitably be considered weird or whatever, but that's his choice then and he will understand the consequences then. While our children are young, it is our responsibility as a parent to try to make the best choices for them, while they don't understand the consequences. I'm not saying it's right that he would have to not wear it outside, but at the same time as others have pointed out here, it wouldn't be acceptable to wear a swimsuit constantly or any other costume constantly.
Now, if it were my child I'd still allow him to wear it to the mall or to the store or whatever, if that's what he pleases and definitely around the house but not 24/7. There's a time and place for everything and school isn't a place for a child to be wearing a costume. It's a distraction for the child himself and for those around him.
imo.
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And this getting national coverage is somehow in the best interest of the child? I think I need that explained to me... Additionally, it's not a "costume" issue. It's not the same as wearing around a swimsuit at all.
 
#39
Ray Salamon said:
And this getting national coverage is somehow in the best interest of the child? I think I need that explained to me...
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I'm pretty sure 2 or 3 posts above this one I agreed that is is NOT in the best interest of the child.

And it is a "costume" issue, imo. But we're all entitled to our opinions, aren't we?
If it' being made into more than a costume issue then I think people are reading too much into this.
 
#40
Ray Salamon said:
Fast forward a bunch of years... the child is now 18. Do we still have to say that they then need to wear "male" clothes? Why? (I'm certain most/all will say no to that) If not, why is it different at that age than the current age? Do we feel the need to protect the child that much from others who are perhaps closed minded? What does that have to say about society?
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Because 18 y/o's aren't children? Sure it's arbitrary, but that is the age deemed to be the threshold of adulthood. Just as getting married, enlisting, buying firearms etc are "only with parental consent" before but not after that age, so goes freedom in dressing however the kid wants.

Also, in the post addressed to me... You're an angry lil fella, aren't you? Like I said, no matter how you feel about society's norms, they are what they are. Try and change them if you want, but don't use your child to do so. Don't hurt your kid (allow him to hurt himself, same thing) because you're mad at the world.

buchanancass said:
If they act against you and are consequently hurt enough times you can be dam sure that the next advice out your mouth will be taken seriously and followed.
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This presumes the child is old and mature enough to properly understand complex causal relationships. Kid gets picked on, he may not understand that it's because his parents let him dress in a way that is not socially appropriate, and may internalize that it's because of [list of other reasons] which is exceedingly damaging. Just look at the kids who blame themselves for their parents divorce, and the damage that does.
 

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