Probationary period?

[SoCal80s]

Probationary periods are used by companies to avoid being sued by fired employees or for terminating a contract. Unless you are establishing an employer-employee relationship or agreeing on a contract, there is nothing to gain by having this conversation and it would be a turn-off to the better players. Best way to address this problem is to have a good conversation up front about the band's goals, the auditioner's goals, and seeing if you can meet each other's needs. Then talk about how you plan to get there. If done right, you will have few problems. If done wrong, part ways as soon as it is clear it won't work and that you can find a replacement and try again. The main cause of someone not putting the effort into a band is that the band is trying to go somewhere that the person is not interested/unable to go.

 

[yodedude2]

I have no problem with the concept, but for god's sake, don't call it a probationary period and don't make it exactly 90 days. Everyone knows what a hired gun is, just make it clear that they are not an equal member yet and don't give them any responsibility within the band other than showing up and playing.

repeated because i like your user name

 

[Yellow Bang66]

For me it would depend on many things. If you're paying them, then I think its absolutely appropriate and probably a good idea. If NOT hiring them it might still be a good idea, but I'm not too sure its something that needs to be stated. And I wouldn't so stern on the 90 day thing. If someone is working out its usually clear, and I don't think it would take 90 days to figure out someone wasn't worth the bother.

As you said, I think one of the most important things before even working with others is to make sure that either everyone is on the same page, or they're willing to go along with the band leaders vision, regardless. The most drama I've experienced in bands has come from people with different goals. Get 2 strong personalities in the band where for one money is priority and the other its, "just getting out there," and there is guaranteed to be trouble.

I t should be considered both ways! I auditioned for a band, I was not looking to join, They needed a bass player for a while, I was reluctant as I was waiting for a couple of friends to get their act together so we could form a band ,that took too long so I tried out with these guys( friends of a friend deal) they werent BAD just a rough around the edges! The Singer & Lead guitarist were above Average, but drummer was very weak. Because of him I was never excited about joining them, but I wasnt doing much so I went along & they kept inviting me back! If asked at that time, I probably wouldve said."Let me think about it!" After about 90day & 10 rehearsals they told me "You're In!" I was kind of Meh, Because in that time a lot of "family secrets" came out & showed they're ugly heads! mostly petty buy annoying things, LG & singer had a heated rivalry & would argue a lot! everyone had a thing about the drummer never inproving or working on his craft! and a couple of minor but irratating things occurred & reoccurred! Enough red Flags to stay away , but Like said, there wasnt anything going on at the time. Plus I had already invested 3 months into this band& they were lining up some gigs! So I went long for the ride.I wasnt that commited. so I could bale if It didnt go well. Gig went okay so things proceeded, but there was constant in -fighting that was very annoying & caused both LG & LS to leave, Ugghhh ! that left me alone with the weak drummer! I left after replacements were found. There was never an understanding of how long the try out process was to be or what they had planned. they just talked about their past accomplishments in between their fights! nothing deal breaking but red flags none the less! it wasnt wasted time as I put it on myself to improve my playing & asexcuse to GAS!In the future, I'll make sure to know the big picture! And not be taken for a Ride!

 

[rtslinger]

90 days? I wouldn't think it would take that long to figure that a player isn't what you are looking for imo
not sure I could or would put a number on it myself. Maybe a 3 strike system could be added if things start to go off the rails.

 

[Altitude]

FWIW, most orchestras have a one year probationary period before the audition winner is given tenure.

This is a good point. Tenure implies that the employee can't be released other than through an exhaustive process, and possibly only for cause. The probationary period makes sense when the employer gives up their employer at will status at the end of it.

In the OP's situation, the new band member probably isn't an employee to begin with, so this whole discussion is moot.

Even setting that aside, the OP's discussion with the new band member on day 89 would be "sorry dude, it's not working out." On day 91, it would be "sorry dude, it's not working out." So the probationary period adds nothing.

 

[2112]

No on the probie period unless you're an employer attempting to mitigate damages caused by having to let go of someone with an interest in continuing employment... like a retirement plan or other benefits. I know that as bassists we're introverted and always looking for ways to build up structures to help us avoid dealing with confrontations and other unpleasant social encounters. But the best course of action is to keep it simple, be human, communicate expectations clearly and directly, and have fun!

 

[primusfan1989]

Unless this gig was incredibly lucrative(mean $500 a gig) Id avoid any of this 90 day trial nonsense as someone looking to join a band.

 

[Michael Milner]

IMHO, the audition is the probationary thing (unless this is a group of professionals who perform for a living). Whoever is running the band needs to set the ground rules. Whenever I have auditioned for a spot in a preexisting group, I understood what I was auditioning for. If at the audition I didn't like the vibe, I turned down the gig (if they called to say I had it that is; if they didn't call then neither did I). If I was auditioning somebody, I would probably be asking around to see what his or her rep is as well. If the person is a problem child, someone will let you know.

 

[40Hz]

If it takes 90 days to figure out if someone is going to fit in, you're doing something wrong.

Pretty much the truth when bringing in a new member. A real audition should tell you where someone has the potential of going with your band within the first 20-30 mins - at most.

It will also tell the candidate everything he or she needs to know about your band. Swords cut both ways.

 

[40Hz]

FWIW, most orchestras have a one year probationary period before the audition winner is given tenure.

There’s also orchestras and corporations who (either because they compensate very generously or possess a cachet looks good on a resume) are slowly shifting over to employment contracts, something which was once thought best avoided at all cost.

Truth is, an employment contract is the most flexible and bulletproof shield an employer can have against a charge of wrongful termination. And canny businesses and similar organizations are gradually figuring that out.

 

[DJ Bebop]

For me it would depend on many things. If you're paying them, then I think its absolutely appropriate and probably a good idea. If NOT hiring them it might still be a good idea, but I'm not too sure its something that needs to be stated. And I wouldn't so stern on the 90 day thing. If someone is working out its usually clear, and I don't think it would take 90 days to figure out someone wasn't worth the bother.

As you said, I think one of the most important things before even working with others is to make sure that either everyone is on the same page, or they're willing to go along with the band leaders vision, regardless. The most drama I've experienced in bands has come from people with different goals. Get 2 strong personalities in the band where for one money is priority and the other its, "just getting out there," and there is guaranteed to be trouble.

Yeah, it usually takes only maybe a couple of rehearsals and a gig to make that determination, imho

 

[DJ Bebop]

IME everybody's on probation forever and can be fired at any time. Everybody's also free to quit.

We are all penciled in

 

[Loring]

Pretty much the truth when bringing in a new member. A real audition should tell you where someone has the potential of going with your band within the first 20-30 mins - at most.

It will also tell the candidate everything he or she needs to know about your band. Swords cut both ways.

Not cutlasses, sabers or samurai swords (and many others and some don’t cut at all - more for poking lol)

 

[bolophonic]

In my universe, nobody is a permanent member of anything if they can’t figure out how to go with the flow.

 

[dbsfgyd1]

After having issues over the years with new bandmates, I've been considering having a 90 day probationary period before someone is in the band permanently. Past problems were stuff like the new guy wanting to take over and run everything, basically just being an ******* once he was hired. Or the guy just wasn't as good as you first thought, playing the same solo on every damn song, terrible feel or no feel at all for what the band is playing. Different goals become apparent soon after joining. Has anyone done this before?

I’ve not had to do that, but a band I worked for 5 years prior, I was on probation as a condition of my hiringand frankly the subject never came up. When I told the BL I was leaving due to the move, he just went on and on about what a pro I was, my tone, flexibility, musical acumen. So I asked him after all those years ad gigs if I was off probation, and he replied “I’ll let you know”. Then we had a good laugh.

 

[logdrum]

So after 90 days -will you have to get HR to fire him/her and they can get severance of some sort - maybe benefits?

 

[TNCreature]

I've been on double secret probation for years!

 

[TNCreature]

 

[Liko]

After having issues over the years with new bandmates, I've been considering having a 90 day probationary period before someone is in the band permanently. Past problems were stuff like the new guy wanting to take over and run everything, basically just being an ******* once he was hired. Or the guy just wasn't as good as you first thought, playing the same solo on every damn song, terrible feel or no feel at all for what the band is playing. Different goals become apparent soon after joining. Has anyone done this before?

When I joined my current band, they gave me two gigs, or about three weeks from my first audition, to "try out" along the lines you're talking about. Just one gig is too easily a fluke, good or bad, but stringing someone along for too long tends to create bad blood if you do need to let him go; the longer a guy plays for you, the more other opportunities he's had to pass up to pursue this one, so if you let him go two months and a dozen gigs into this thing, you're likely leaving him to twist in the wind after he's turned down other paying work. In my case I nailed the first gig, the second one was a little rougher but I held it down. They conferenced, and the drummer came up to me and said "if you want the gig, it's yours." We've done many more gigs since then.

I will say that "permanent" is a highly fraught term when talking about practically any employment, because it's never really true. Regardless of tenure, if my guitarist no-calls no-shows to a gig and doesn't have a really good reason (like "I was heading there, got T-boned by a drunk driver and woke up in the hospital the next day"), they're gone. Seriously, do you want to be left high and dry like that twice? So, you can call a guy "permanent" as soon as he's your week-in, week-out player on that instrument/part. But really, whether he's a month or a decade into it, he's as permanent as his willingness and ability to be a reliable, professional member of the group. Nobody's truly indispensable, especially in the bar band scene.

On a related note, I will also say that a formal probationary period, aka "rookie" or "pledge" status, is a double-edged sword. In the corporate world, it gives you firmer ground to let a guy go for lesser or fewer transgressions, but corporate or personal, the kind of loyalty and professionalism that "you screw up just a little and you're out" tends to produce is skin-deep and fleeting. The true test, IMO, is when you let him be himself; that typically happens a few weeks past any "tryout" period, explicit or implied. Once he's comfortable in his new position and with the band's existing interpersonal dynamic, does he still show up on time and ready to play? Is he still doing his homework? Does he still treat everyone else with the respect he's given? If so, you've found your guy. If not, then "rookie" or not, it should be at least worth talking to him about what expectations he isn't living up to before you give him the boot (assuming the expectation isn't something so boneheadedly simple as "show up to the gig").

 

[Nightman]

I say run your band the way you want to! Some BL’s take the approach to expect the person who’s not working out to quit on their own or they wait until things come to boiling points.