[Project Diary] Ric inspired short scale bass

[Gilmourisgod]

I really like the Schaller roller bridge I put on my Lemmy clone, same bridge used on the Ric 4004. The footprint isn’t too big, fully adjustable for height intonation, and string spacing. Plus it definitely works on the narrower Ric spacing. I like the small body design, Hipshot or Ric V2 just too big.

 

[Old Ozzie Guy]

Thanks

Very cool, is it the bass I see in your profile's photo?

Yep, that's it, I re wired it with no vol, a phase reversal on the silent dummy coil, and a 250k no lead tone pot. It's a great little bass, very 60's "thud", but with bite. I have iv found myself using my Sandberg Nighthawk more live, as it has a lot more tonal variations.
I'm keen to see how your project turns out.

 

[Norman Hunter]

My drummer and best friend François is an amateur luthier, he offered to build me a custom bass.

• I’ve never had a Rickenbacker - I have a strange love/hate relation with them. So I thought it would be nice to design a Ric inspired bass (trying to keep what I love in Rics, and remove what I hate).
• I’d like it to be small and lightweight like my Acinonyx
• As versatile as it can be

View attachment 7182433

Pickups and electronics​

Pickups​

• All my others basses have 2 humbuckers, I’d like to have at least a single coil option (splittable humbucker and / or single coil pickup).
• I’m curious to experiment if it could sound good to mix 2 different pickups, so I’ve ordered the 2 pickups I was hesitant about: a Ric style toaster (splittable humbucker) and a Ric style « high gain » (single coil)
• If mixing these 2 pickups lacks consistency, I'll buy a second copy of the one I like best

Electronics​

• All my basses have a pickup selector, I wanted to try a pickup balance for change
• I want to try a preamp with mid control.
• I’ve decided to choose the John East Uni Pre 3, because it has all the features I wanted (and more), with only 3 stacked controls. I know there’s a chance it could be overwhelming, but I won’t be obliged to use all the controls - at least they’ll be available if needed.

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If you are going to use active electronics you might look around for Rickenbacker style pickups that won't be noisy rather than Rickenbacker pickups. Serek Basses make pickups called Serek Singles that according to Jake Serek are voiced to sound like high gain Rickenbacker pickups. There are many other replacement pickups for the Rickenbacker to consider. Rickenbacker's are notoriously noisy anyway because they don't reverse the polarity of their pickups.

 

[Old Ozzie Guy]

If you are going to use active electronics you might look around for Rickenbacker style pickups that won't be noisy rather than Rickenbacker pickups. Serek Basses make pickups called Serek Singles that according to Jake Serek are voiced to sound like high gain Rickenbacker pickups. There are many other replacement pickups for the Rickenbacker to consider. Rickenbacker's are notoriously noisy anyway because they don't reverse the polarity of their pickups.

I will attest that the Serek I purchased, is an amazing sounding pick up, and that, Serek are very helpful with any questions put to them. IMHO , their B90 single coil, the " The 1 single coil, to rule all !!" lol.. it's quiet, and growls !

 

[KohanMike]

@gtirard, I had a similar thought years ago and had my repair place, Eric's Guitar in Sound City (yes, that Sound City) modify a 21" scale bass uke into a Ric look alike, with the walnut stain done by Pat Wilkins. The pickups are actually fake, it uses the original piezo at the tailpiece, and the strings are nylon core flatwounds. I made the headstock decal, Ukenbacker. I've since sold it. Below is the original bass uke.

 

[gtirard]

If you are going to use active electronics you might look around for Rickenbacker style pickups that won't be noisy rather than Rickenbacker pickups. Serek Basses make pickups called Serek Singles that according to Jake Serek are voiced to sound like high gain Rickenbacker pickups. There are many other replacement pickups for the Rickenbacker to consider. Rickenbacker's are notoriously noisy anyway because they don't reverse the polarity of their pickups.

@Norman Hunter, @Old Ozzie Guy I don't know how could I miss these pickups when I did my research. I love Serek basses, and I've watched their videos when I was first considering a Guild BS-1 or Curtis Novak BS-DS pickup.

A pair of Serek Singles would be perfect for that project.

Since I already bought the Retrovibe pickups we'll try to go on with them, but if there're not satisfactory I suppose I'll get a pair of Serek Singles.

 

[Old Ozzie Guy]

I'm sure it will be a great instrument, with whatever pick ups u go with.
Good on you for 'hav'n a go', as we say down under.
I've been thinking of 're modelling ' my LPj, not sure of the eventual body shape, but it won't look the same. Nitro gloss aged white, tortoise shell pick gard, with 2 Serek B90s..on a blend, no vol control, and same tone I'm using .
Hopefully, in a few months time...

 

[Kaa]

That is a super cool build.

 

[RLK]

This looks like a very cool project. gtirard says the design is still in development. For fun I played with lower horn (on the right)

 

[gtirard]

I will meet my luthier friend Wednesday for a first test of the breadboard, I can't wait

Here are a few of the questions I'd like to study about pickups placement:

• How do you define the "sweet spot" for each pickup?
• Is there an optimal distance between both pickup? On my G&L L2000, the pickups are very close together, whereas they are further apart on the Acinonyx. I like both. Is there a relation between that distance and a "mid scoop" effect when mixing them?
• Should I focus on the optimal position of each individual pickup, or the best position when playing with both, or try to find the best compromise between individual and relative positioning?
• What methodology should I use, in order to avoid getting lost in too many parameters?

So in order to prepare myself, I made some research:

• This very interesting article explains the theory and the maths
• This video explains the opposite: the "sweet spot" is a myth, maths isn't relevant because it's based on open strings, and everything shifts as soon as you press the string down to the frets.

So I guess I'll get back to the "trial and error" approach, but feel free to share your view/wisdom

 

[gtirard]

This looks like a very cool project. gtirard says the design is still in development. For fun I played with lower horn (on the right)View attachment 7184862

Thanks.

Sure, I'm open to any suggestion - I'll have the last word anyway

 

[Matt Liebenau]

Thread 'How pickup position affects tone'

Mar 1, 2025

I've spent a lot of time building and designing my own basses. One of the tools that has really helped me get a grasp on whether a new idea will work well or not is simulations - initially done on the electronics of a bass, but that usually only affects the upper mid and high frequency response of a bass. What controls the sound of a bass at lower mid and low frequencies is the effects of pickup position(s) and how they interact when combined in various ways. There is some Physics here that I won't completely cover (This might have been a Physics Master's thesis had I decided to stay in...

• micguy
• Replies: 22
• Forum: Pickups & Electronics [BG]

• 
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[Gilmourisgod]

If you want the Ric tone, might as well use Ric pup spacing, which is within a hairs breadth of theoretical 24th and 36th fret locations. Personally I think that's way overblown, as the string harmonics change as soon as you fret a note, but I guess it makes a difference on open strings.

 

[gtirard]

If you want the Ric tone, might as well use Ric pup spacing, which is within a hairs breadth of theoretical 24th and 36th fret locations. Personally I think that's way overblown, as the string harmonics change as soon as you fret a note, but I guess it makes a difference on open strings.

Yes, I was studying the pickup placement of several known basses.
Using the Jazz Bass as a reference, I compared the G&L L2000 and the Acinonyx (because that's my other basses, and I love how they sound with both pickups).
And when I added the Rick 4003, I've noticed that the pickup placement is identical to that of the Acinonyx.

I'm not sure it's relevant because theses basses use very different pickups.
But I will try these 3 settings anyway with my Retrovibe pickups just to see how much difference does it make, and we'll see from there.

 

[Dave Higham]

Before I got into playing bass, and then making them, I wanted to play guitar and even had classic guitar lessons until I realised that I was wasting my money and the teacher's time. Classic players move their right hands around a lot, sometimes playing over the fingerboard which gives a very 'round' melifluous (?) sound and sometimes near the bridge, when they want a brittle, metallic sound, and everywhere in between. Steel string players almost never do it because there's less of the effect with steel strings although some, like Clive Carrol, do because he plays both. So I think that may be why some basses have the pickups placed as far apart as possible (like the Hofner Beatle basses) to get the maximum range of tones possible. But what do I know? . . .
You could try it on your breadboard.

 

[Gilmourisgod]

I have an 83’ L2K with original “lawsuit” headstock, those MFD pups are the Bomb. It’s a heavy bass, but covers all the best Fender tones pretty well. I haven’t played it in a while though, should probably sell it to somebody who will.

 

[Kendescending]

Yes, I was studying the pickup placement of several known basses.
Using the Jazz Bass as a reference, I compared the G&L L2000 and the Acinonyx (because that's my other basses, and I love how they sound with both pickups).
And when I added the Rick 4003, I've noticed that the pickup placement is identical to that of the Acinonyx.

View attachment 7185199

I'm not sure it's relevant because theses basses use very different pickups.
But I will try these 3 settings anyway with my Retrovibe pickups just to see how much difference does it make, and we'll see from there.

I would personally put the Ric bridge pickup more towards the center of the bass like the picture above. It will most likely help with the string spacing issues as well. I've never liked the sound of pickups near the bridge.

 

[Gilmourisgod]

I would personally put the Ric bridge pickup more towards the center of the bass like the picture above. It will most likely help with the string spacing issues as well. I've never liked the sound of pickups near the bridge.

He might not have a choice, the G string saddle has to be located 15" from the center of of the 12th fret, give or take about 1/8-1/4" max, for the bass to intonate properly. If his sketch is dimensionally accurate, the Hipshot would be hanging off the edge of the bass, but maybe that's just a graphic placeholder. I like the Hipshot visually, but it's effectively the same footprint as the OEM Ric bridge. It has to be to cover the mute recess, screw holes, etc. The alternative would be to locate the bridge where you like it visually and then adjust the neck outwards towards the headstock as needed for a 30" scale length. Standard Ric scale length is a slightly odd 33.25".

 

[gtirard]

First work session in the luthier's workshop yesterday

• Good news: after setting the string spacing to the minimum on the Sandberg bridge, the volume is now even accross all 4 strings on the "Hi Gain" pcikup. Problem #1 solved.
• I love the sound of John East preamp, it works exactly like I expected and it's even more efficient than what I thought
• The Retrovibe High Gain pickup sounds great, aggressive and full, and it has a very hot signal. Also it sounds great in any position: close to the bridge, close to the neck and anywhere in between.
• I didn't care for the "Toaster" pickup. It sounded weak compared to the other one. We were able to compensate for the difference of level between the pickups by adjusting their gain trims on the preamp, but even then the High Gain pickup sounded better.
• Since the Toaster pickup is splitable, François had installed a "Single coil / Parallel / Series" switch, and I've played with it. I was dissapointed. I could only hear a difference of volume, not really a big difference of character.
• So I will replace the Toaster pickup by a second High Gain pickup without regret.
• Problem #2 has emerged: using the pickup blend knob, I've got a good volume CCW (bridge pickup full on), then it decreases and gets thinner sounding until the blend knob is centered, then it increases turning CW to the neck position. I've asked the question to John East's tech support.
• I've played with different pickup position and it was fun, but it wasn't very practicle to be obliged to screw / unscrew the pickups each time I wanted to test a different position, so François the luthier said he would install a system of Velcro tape when I get the second High Gain pickup, so we can move them easily.

This is so fun!

 

[topper]

Leo's breadboard​

The journey counts as much as the result. I have no need for a new bass now, so we're going to take our time and use a trial & error approach. Let's give ourselves one year, hopefully we'll have fun and learn a few things from our errors.

When I saw Leo Fender's breadboard bass, I've asked my friend if he could build one, so we can explore different pickup placement in order to find the « sweet spot » for each pickup before building the final instrument (and carve the pickups cavities)

He came out with this design, where we can freely move both pickups and access to a satellite for the electronics, and here's where we stand now:

View attachment 7182437

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Has anyone used this kind of "breadboard" in the process of building a bass?

Did you find this useful? I've always wondered about whether the "sweet spot" is real or a myth. The length of the string and its shape and vibration are going to move depending on what note you are fretting. So it seems impossible to find a single sweet spot. My suspicion (and I have not tested this) is that the "sweet spot" has more to do with lining the pickup pole pieces directly under each string than anything else.