Protecting equipment from bad power.

[Big Hoss]

So a local band at a dock side bar had what I will call a major incident involving their equipment this past weekend.... (DGB at Zone 520 in Kemah)

The transformer that feeds power into the building let out the magic smoke with extreme prejudice, taking with it everything that wasn't isolated via a line conditioner / surge suppressor. The big screen TVs in the bar reportedly actually burst into flames, the 4 15" powered cabs, 2 18" powered subs were destroyed, the digital mixer reportedly smells of ozone, but still functions, for how much longer is anyone's guess, the guitarists amp had 2 tubes blown and what other damage who knows, and the bass players MarkBass CMD102P is reported as still working, but the bass player is concerned there might be hidden damage.

This brings up a HUGE concern for me, being that I tend to play venues with flaky power, and even sometimes in a field powered by a generator.

So how do we protect our equipment without sacrificing sound or performance?

 

[Killed_by_Death]

"taking with it everything that wasn't isolated via a line conditioner / surge suppressor"

You answered your own question.
At home I have a UPS between all my important gear & the wall socket.

 

[Big Hoss]

"taking with it everything that wasn't isolated via a line conditioner / surge suppressor"

You answered your own question.
At home I have a UPS between all my important gear & the wall socket.

My computers are all on UPSes with quality surge supressors between the wall and the UPS, my mixer is attached to this rig.

My board, and my Rumble are powered by a GE surge supressor strip, I wasn't thinking surge when I did it, I was thinking outlet density and cable organization. But this works...

The Behringer GTX guitar amp isn't protected except for by unplugging when not in use.

I should probably grab a couple of decent quality surge supressors to power the PA speakers, and mixer for live sound.

I heard somewhere, probably here, that amps don't like being powered by generators. And that UPSes and surge supressors really aren't any protection at all. But the guitarist that DID have his amp protected by a surge supressor had no damage. Go figure...

For me, with the type of gigs I tend to do, Generator power is a very real, and likely scenario. This is kind of an important issue for me...

 

[Killed_by_Death]

I think there is a serious problem with that bar's power system. I would think they would look into getting it fixed after what happened.

 

[Big Hoss]

I think there is a serious problem with that bar's power system. I would think they would look into getting it fixed after what happened.

Yeah, they have to. They had to shut down for a couple of days to fix it, they were 100% without power for about 2 days while the power company fixed / replaced the transformer. Not the bars fault, the grid providers equipment failed.

He could probably sue the bar and get the gear replaced, but end up effectively blackballed from the local scene. He could sue the grid provider, but I suspect they are indemnified by the state, so long story short, that band is out some expensive gear, and has upcoming gigs this weekend. I know they have backup gear, but their backups are, well... far less than ideal, I mean I am cheap but their backups are stuff I would only use in the tightest of binds... (1980s Peavey PA stuff that is heavy as a tank and not nearly as loud or clean as you'd like...)

 

[SirMjac28]

First of all I feel bad for the damage to everyone's equipment I hope the bar owner assists in some kind of help with repairs. I also read about generators causing some problems I would invest in a good quality suppressor/conditioner it doesn't have to be super expensive either.

 

[JeffsGotMilk]

The only true way to isolate and protect your electronics is with a UPS.
Furman makes UPS power conditioners with voltage regulation, but they are pricey.

FurmanSound.com - Pro A/V Product - F1000-UPS

 

[Big Hoss]

Would there be any problem running amps etc... off of say high quality computer UPSes? I have a stack of CyberPower 1500AVR UPSes that aren't doing anything these days...

 

[Big Hoss]

First of all I feel bad for the damage to everyone's equipment I hope the bar owner assists in some kind of help with repairs. I also read about generators causing some problems I would invest in a good quality suppressor/conditioner it doesn't have to be super expensive either.

I would be surprised if the bar owner didn't work with them to make a claim on the grid owner. I have heard good things about Zone 520 from several other small upstart bands. They are a fun place too, just a pain to find parking around that Kemah Boardwalk area...

 

[s0c9]

The transformer that feeds power into the building let out the magic smoke with extreme prejudice, taking with it everything that wasn't isolated via a line conditioner / surge suppressor.

with that kind of catastrophic event, your "standard" line conditioner / surge suppressor would have done absolutely squat to prevent damage. Would have been a slight impediment to that level of current - assuming TV's bursting in flames is accurate.
No UPS would protect you from that level event!

 

[Killed_by_Death]

No UPS would protect you from that level event!

Once the varistor breaks in there, you're protected no matter what tries to come in after it.

 

[s0c9]

Once the thermistor breaks in there, you're protected no matter what tries to come in after it.

Maybe I should have said "line conditioner / surge suppressor" ?
My point was that whatever that band used would have been useless!

 

[SirMjac28]

Once the thermistor breaks in there, you're protected no matter what tries to come in after it.

Don't they get rated by how fast they interrupt the flow of electricity? I know it's probably measured in milliseconds but I seem to remember the more expensive ones bragging about how fast they are?.

 

[SirMjac28]

Maybe I should have said "line conditioner / surge suppressor" ?
My point was that whatever that band used would have been useless!

The OP did say that the one guitarist that had a surge protector didn't have any damage I wonder what model he uses? I agree with you though 9/10 times no matter what you're using that much juice is going to destroy everything.

 

[Killed_by_Death]

I used to get lightning into my house power when I lived in Thailand. I put in a good ground & used thermal magnetic breakers, never had a problem again.

Once your breaker, or varistor, or whatever your protection is, breaks, you're safe. No matter if 100 MegaVolts is pouring in.

 

[Big Hoss]

The OP did say that the one guitarist that had a surge protector didn't have any damage I wonder what model he uses? I agree with you though 9/10 times no matter what you're using that much juice is going to destroy everything.

I wish I knew.

I know I use Belkin, GE, and CyberPower Systems power protection equipment. I have a Square D surge supressor in my main panel in the house, it has saved my AC, Fridge, TVs etc... from a lightning strike to the tree in my neighbors back yard that took out all the electronics in that neighbors house, and the one on the other side of the fence from me... Well worth the investment. I am pretty sure a surge supressor behind a surge supressor is OCD on my part, but hey, it's my stuff...

Oh, and yes, I am properly grounded, I actually watched the eletrical crew drive the ground rods and make the connection. A LOT had to be redone after Hurricane Ike...

 

[Honch]

Count yourself lucky that the place didn't caught fire. The insurance companies are nasty with such damages. I mean, to those who've been struck with damage. You can sue the bar. Normally a regular floor power strip with built in lightning jolt fuse, (to protect from lightning strike, which not anyone can protect against fully), or a RCD. Those can be built in and keep you from damage. As for bad current, with noise and not ampere enough in the grid, go for those Furman conditioners. They have built in fuses anyway, that will blow within a nanosecond (i e both lightning and rcd built in too). You should have pretty expensive equipment in order for it to be worthwhile to purchase that. Maybe the band can share all outputs from that one. If just keeping yourself from injury and equipment from damage, go for the RCD, or lightning jolt fuses. RCD = Residual Current Device

Invalid Link Removed

Better safe than sagging power. Oh, in the US it's called something else I reckon.
GFCI breaker. See here:

Residual-current device - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[s0c9]

I used to get lightning into my house power when I lived in Thailand. I put in a good ground & used thermal magnetic breakers, never had a problem again.

Once your breaker, or thermistor, or whatever your protection is, breaks, you're safe. No matter if 100 MegaVolts is pouring in.

That's not strictly true.. but it depends on the surge size, voltage and so on.
A large enough surge (200+ amps??) CAN jump breakers and fry TV's etc...

 

[rtav]

Monster Power Conditioner 3500 works for me.

 

[Honch]

The OP did say that the one guitarist that had a surge protector didn't have any damage I wonder what model he uses? I agree with you though 9/10 times no matter what you're using that much juice is going to destroy everything.

No, but it may destroy the surge protector and the fuses in it. In amps, the fuses should be the only things that blows. If it's a fast blow one. That surge processor one may go, but you never destroy your amp or get a schock. The ones by Samson with switched net or power grid may get destroyed, but not the large expensive ones by Furman. Furman P-1400 AR E, They start at 1880 USD I think. They weigh in at ... ahrem...7 kg/15 lbs so it's in a ONE RACK HEIGHT unit. Furman makes a couple of cheap ones as well. Avoid.