Protecting equipment from bad power.

[Killed_by_Death]

A large enough surge (200+ amps??) CAN jump breakers and fry TV's etc...

To get amps/current, you need a path for the electricity to travel. Extremely high electrical potential (Voltage) is what makes it jump from one breaker pole to the other.

That being said, if one guy's rig survived it, then it wasn't to that level of extremity.

 

[Honch]

The bar should invest in one of these (the huge heavy one with torroidal transformer) :



Not you.

 

[staurosjohn]

The only true way to isolate and protect your electronics is with a UPS.
Furman makes UPS power conditioners with voltage regulation, but they are pricey.

FurmanSound.com - Pro A/V Product - F1000-UPS

+1

 

[AnalogKid4003]

I heard somewhere, probably here, that amps don't like being powered by generators. And that UPSes and surge supressors really aren't any protection at all. But the guitarist that DID have his amp protected by a surge supressor had no damage. Go figure....

I am an electrical contractor in Arizona and I have seen the wrath of lightning strikes, utility equipment failure etc.
Alot of people here will tell you that A rack surge suppressor will do nothing. I tend to disagree. But hey, it's pretty obvious which members think they know it all about everything on this forum.

I run a monster 2500 which had a 2775 joule rating, most don't even spec this rating. Which usually means it's low.

What it comes down to is the Joule rating, the higher the number the faster it "clamps" and protects the load connected.
And I like them also because there's plenty of outlets to plug your rack equipment into with one switch to turn everything on at once.
I think I spent about $150 to protect $5000 in gear. I Say it's a pretty good investment

 

[Metalbasspro]

Great thread since I once had a Peavy markIII blown out by a Clubs shoddy systems. If you lose that much gear I would politely ask that some help be sent your way and I think suing for recovery is good business sense. If they want to blackball your band so be it. How many gigs and how well do they pay before revering from that loss is the question.


What kind of basic protection can one buy for one's bass rig?

 

[SirMjac28]

There is some good info in this thread I use a Furman but I'm going to take Analog Kid's advice and look at that Monster 2500.

 

[Metalbasspro]

There is some good info in this thread I use a Furman but I'm going to take Analog Kid's advice and look at that Monster 2500.

I have a Furman too but is it enough? I'm guessing not. Mine is 20 years old too.


How would this one rate? 800 is a lot to pay for something like this I think. Invalid Link Removed

 

[SirMjac28]

I have a Furman too but is it enough? I'm guessing not. Mine is 20 years old too.


How would this one rate? 800 is a lot to pay for something like this I think. Invalid Link Removed

I have a Furman too but is it enough? I'm guessing not. Mine is 20 years old too.


How would this one rate? 800 is a lot to pay for something like this I think. Invalid Link Removed

That's a lot I'm thinking my Furman and maybe this one should be enough Monster Pro 200 Professional PowerCenter Surge Protector 2 Outlets 1110 Joules | eBay

 

[SirMjac28]

I am an electrical contractor in Arizona and I have seen the wrath of lightning strikes, utility equipment failure etc.
Alot of people here will tell you that A rack surge suppressor will do nothing. I tend to disagree. But hey, it's pretty obvious which members think they know it all about everything on this forum.

I run a monster 2500 which had a 2775 joule rating, most don't even spec this rating. Which usually means it's low.

What it comes down to is the Joule rating, the higher the number the faster it "clamps" and protects the load connected.
And I like them also because there's plenty of outlets to plug your rack equipment into with one switch to turn everything on at once.
I think I spent about $150 to protect $5000 in gear. I Say it's a pretty good investment

Thanks for that info on the joule rating I didn't even know about that I see my Furman is rated at only 170 joules and the Monster Pro 200 is rated at 1110 joules and it's only $13.99 is it possible I can use this at the wall socket then have my extension cord run into the Furman? the Monster only has two outlets.

 

[SirMjac28]

I have a Furman too but is it enough? I'm guessing not. Mine is 20 years old too.


How would this one rate? 800 is a lot to pay for something like this I think. Invalid Link Removed

I read the info it's ratings say Maximum Surge Current: 6,500 Amps which equals to only about 238 joules? it has a ton of cool features but the price doesn't seem to jive with the amount of protection unless I'm totally off base with my reasoning.

 

[seamonkey]

You can't really protect against any unexpected line condition that may happen. If it's a freak occurrence, it's just a freak.

Manufacturers usually build in all the protection you'd need from predictable circumstances.

AT the most cheap power strips are all that's needed as they all now seem to come with "surge protection"

MOV's csan wear out after they are tripped a few time. And you'd never know unless the power strip has lights wired to shine when they're blown. Still the outlets on the strips would supply power and so any warning light would just be ignored by the average person. So it's good the manufacturers build in protection too.

If the breakers in the breaker box are fast, they'll trip before the fuse or circuit breaker in the power strip. If there is no fuse or circuit breaker in the power strip, then plugging in a strip with a MOV on any outlet on a circuit would protect the whole circuit.

Lighting nearby also has a big EMP. Which can harm equipment even if unplugged, including tube gear. Tests in the cold war times confirmed this.

The fancy heavy multi-tap transformer type voltage regulators can induce a lot of harmonics on the gear that's plugged into to them. I wouldn't go near them. UPS and power inverter type are going to be cleaner power.

 

[PortlandBass77]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the bar SHOULD be required to have insurance in case something like this happens, and it SHOULD cover your damaged and destroyed equipment......

 

[Killed_by_Death]

it's pretty obvious which members think they know it all about everything on this forum.

I'm glad you noticed.

 

[Big Hoss]

Let me be clear about my statements here.

#1. First and foremost. This was NOT my band, not my equipment, I am only discussing an incident that took place that I heard about via my local scuttlebutt. These are local guys and we cross paths somewhat frequently.
#2. The situation about insurance claims etc... is understandable, but irrelevant to the questions. I want to know about how to avoid needing the insurance in the first place. It would stink to not be able to gig again until the insurance pays out and they buy new gear. And I am sure the insurance will cover depreciated value, not replacement value...
#3. A related issue is non permanent power supplies, I.E. generators to run a show in remote areas... For example...

A proposed gig would be held at a remote beach location, accessible only via 4 wheel drive vehicle. My truck is 4x4, the guitarist has a Jeep Wrangler 4x4, the vocalist is his wife and likely to ride with him... For this gig, IF we accept it, we will need a generator as the closest grid power is about 2 miles up the beach. For this type of gig we will likely use the Rumble 500 no extension cab, the GTX60, and likely only one of the TS115Sa loudspeakers with the mixer for vocals and drum synth only.

I am not sure I am willing to do this particular gig though as I am not a huge fan of sand in my amps...

 

[Big Hoss]

Okay the surge supressor I have on my board is this GE Unit that I got from Home Depot (although Amazon has it too.). It is rated for 1500 joules which I am thinking is insufficient protection.

Although it is a LOT larger physically than my GE, which physical size was a consideration, I am thinking THIS Belkin model with 4156 Joules protection would be more than adequate for my equipment.

 

[Stealth Fighter]

Alot of people here will tell you that A rack surge suppressor will do nothing.

I don't personally recall anyone on this forum say that "...a rack surge suppressor will do nothing". I have read where many people said that the rack surge suppressor is no better than installing MOVs on the power receptacle, which you can do yourself for only a few bucks, and something that I would strongly advise. However, if your equipment is connected to a power source that takes a direct lightning strike, it is doubtful that any surge suppressor/voltage regulator, etc. on the market would have helped, e.g., the service cable going to my workshop/garage was struck by lightning. The energy from that hit vaporized about 3' to 4' of that cable. It's anyone's guess what that would have done to a voltage regulator.

 

[Big Hoss]

I don't personally recall anyone on this forum say that "...a rack surge suppressor will do nothing". I have read where many people said that the rack surge suppressor is no better than installing MOVs on the power receptacle, which you can do yourself for only a few bucks, and something that I would strongly advise. However, if your equipment is connected to a power source that takes a direct lightning strike, it is doubtful that any surge suppressor/voltage regulator, etc. on the market would have helped, e.g., the service cable going to my workshop/garage was struck by lightning. The energy from that hit vaporized about 3' to 4' of that cable. It's anyone's guess what that would have done to a voltage regulator.

Agreed, but the issue at hand is a failed transformer not due to lightning....

It does bring up the point though, insure your stuff!

 

[Stealth Fighter]

Agreed, but the issue at hand is a failed transformer not due to lightning....

It does bring up the point though, insure your stuff!

No argument here, but be aware that the service transformer could have had as much as 35 kv on the primary side. Depending on the actual failure the equipment could have "seen" several thousand volts. Based on my experience of actually working with 35 kv, voltages this high act very much like lightning. Of course, this is said simply to reinforce your recommendation to insure your equipment.

 

[mrokern]

I've had good luck with both the Furman and SurgeX gear, and having done shows in some god-awful places on gennies, I've run across a lot of bad power. Nice thing with SurgeX is that it doesn't have MOVs to blow.

 

[brianrost]

[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]

I'd avoid the ones that are just surge protector/filters, but they do have 15A regulators like the current P1800AR ($880 street new) that are cheaper than the one mentioned and will do the job. These will keep you going through brownouts as low as 90VAC, filter out noise from generators, etc.

[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]

I see used ones like the discontinued AR1215 model for $400 quite often.

You definitely do not need a UPS unless you want to keep rocking for another 15 minutes after a power outage.