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Pulling flats off the P...

alex1fly

alex1fly

Feb 5, 2008
789
1,209
#1
I never thought this day would come... The day when I consider pulling my Deep Talking Flats off the P Bass.

I love how they feel, I love how they sit in a mix, I love that they've been on my P for the last 3 years and have been through countless rehearsals and gigs, and I love that they could probably stay on this bass for many more years.

But with Covid and myriad personnel issues, my semi-professional reggae/dub band split up and I'm pursuing other musical outlets more these days (guitar, effects processing, looping, composition). The P Bass is a great instrument, but I just haven't enjoyed playing it for nearly a year and I think a big part of that is the flats - the thump that sounds so satisfying when pushing subwoofers in a big space comes across as dead in my home setup, lifeless unplugged (I play acoustically quite a bit), boring on a recording. Even on the occasional jams I've had during quarantine, the P has felt a little "dead" and I've had much more fun on a Squier shortie with sharp fret ends and roundwound strings. And I miss enjoying my lovely P!

There was something magical about the limits that flats put on my playing - without the top end zing, I was forced to be more musical and listen to the other players, be more fundamental to the band sound, and really lock in the groove. But I am hopeful that in those years I grew enough as an ensemble musician to channel that same intention even without the flats on there... maybe I am ready for the responsibility of the "zing", controlling it and using it where appropriate.

None of this has any bearing on anybody else, and my future bandmates won't know I changed anything. It is simply interesting to me, and I thought I'd share my little tale, of how preferences and goals change over time as situations change, abilities evolve, and I/we frankly get bored with the same old thing.

Alternatively, maybe I'll just leave 'em on there and check in on the bass in 6 months. It'd be a dang tragedy if they broke while putting them back on:)

Alex
 
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#3
Meh. Take em off, keep em around, and enjoy your fling with the rounds. I had a set of Chromes once that lasted about 10 years. At one point or another, they were off and on 4 different basses, in a handful of different tunings. They did just fine. I have a set of Fender flats now that are the same way.

I feel you on the flat wounds though, mine are absolutely buttery in a live mix, but on their own they just sound, well, flat. Lately I've put the flats away and went back to some cheap D'Addario rounds on my main player. It's fun, and I'll probably leave them for a while. But I'm sure the flats will call my name again, and when they do I'll reach back into the little box of strings under my desk and pull the Fenders back out, because why not.
 
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#8
I've had an on off relationship with flats, in the right context they sound magical but it's when I need more attitude to my tone that the flats don't really cut it, the other reason I switched back to rounds is that I found flats changed the way I played too much, my bass parts become much more pedestrian with flats whereas with rounds I play chords and double stops and i play more high register melodies
 
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#11
IME, the usefulness of flats in a band situation is almost completely dependent on how much the rest of the band allows frequency slots to be reserved for you, as well as how loud your drummer and keyboardist are. Do they usually understand that? In my experience with non-pro players and bad sound guys, they don't, and they are not interested in learning that concept. So, although I love playing flats, and in the right situation they sound wonderful, I tend to stick to rounds when playing live.
 
#12
Embrace the roundwound zing and change it up for a while! Like others have said, those La Bellas ought to be perfectly good to use again if you want to.

I just put a set of DR Hi Beams on my Shifter (PJ) to replace the broken-in-but-not-dead-yet Sunbeams that were on previously, and I'm really loving that stainless steel zing right now :cool:
 
#13
Luckydog said:
IME, the usefulness of flats in a band situation is almost completely dependent on how much the rest of the band allows frequency slots to be reserved for you, as well as how loud your drummer and keyboardist are. Do they usually understand that? In my experience with non-pro players and bad sound guys, they don't, and they are not interested in learning that concept. So, although I love playing flats, and in the right situation they sound wonderful, I tend to stick to rounds when playing live.
Click to expand...
As a novice bass player (but who's played guitar in bands) who loves flats, I'd love it if you could expound on this a bit more.
 
#15
Also, unless you're straight-up barbaric with your strings, breakage is not very much a thing for bass strings.

Flatwounds that are too long, like long-scale strings put on a medium- or short-scale bass, can have winding fraying, but not all, and not always.

All of that said, I'd bought a bass a few years ago and a day after it arrived, I started tuning it and the G string broke. Very gently, just kind of gave way right at the tuning peg. Roundwound strings, too. So it can happen, clearly, but I've never had a mid-gig breakage or anything, and not due to moving a set of strings from one bass to another. And THAT I've done kind of a lot of times. Just treat them like you'd treat your dog (talk soothingly and offer them treats) and they'll fetch you all the good tones.
 
#16
jhc said:
As a novice bass player (but who's played guitar in bands) who loves flats, I'd love it if you could expound on this a bit more.
Click to expand...

just that flats have a beautiful full wide sound that some, including me, feel is often masked by all the other instruments, and that causes the loss of presence in a busy loud mix, which leads to it being harder to distinguish notes. Not always, but often. Judicious mixing (whether in a studio, or on a stage, by capable pros), can leave frequency spaces in the mix where those flats can reside without disappearing in the cacophony of other sounds. Also, there is a difference in sound on stage vs front of house (FOH), and sometimes lack of volume discipline onstage causes some instruments to just disappear, in the perception of the player, causing those players to crank it up, and worsening that effect.

Also, standing in front of your amp gives you a perspective on how you sound in a mix...but usually only from that particular position, unless you are listening to a good monitor mix or have some good in-ears. Just listening from your amp position, you might not be able to hear yourself well, but others (band members or audience) 6 feet away from your position may hear you clearly. That position thing is applicable, whether you use flats or rounds.

There are lots of exceptions where flats work just fine, but often those cases are where there is a greater understanding of these principles by the players, as well as a well-qualified sound person in control of the mix.

The way much of today's music is mixed vs the recordings from the 60's and early 70's...like Stax, Fame, Muscle Shoals is often vastly different. Those earlier recordings are typically flat-strung basses and you can clearly hear how the bass has a lot of presence, and often is a major driver of those tunes, even though you can clearly hear the other instruments. It isn't washed out by all-enveloping kick, synth and left hand organ notes. Those old recordings had to be playable on 6" car and record player speakers, and were mixed differently than much of the music today.

Presence and articulation is needed if you want to hear the bass, and often someone (band members or sound person) need to leave you openings in the mix to be heard, and/or you need to use equipment (including strings) that doesn't inhibit that needed articulation and presence.
 
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#17
Same boat as the OP. I had La Bella DTF's on my Precision for the last 10 years (the Original 1954 set) and after a couple months with no gigs I switched them out for a set of Fender 7250's that I had lying around unopened.

I liked the rounds fresh out of the box for solo playing but am tiring of the string noise. Considering switching to TI Flats, which I had used prior to the La Bella's and remember really liking.
 

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