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Puma or Blue soul, with Berg or Baer ?

asbs

asbs

Oct 11, 2010
642
252
Geneva
#1
Here the picture :

I play Markbass (R500, 4*10 and 1*15,see picture) for a couples of years now, and I looking for differents sounds.

Since about 6 month,I looking for a lighter/smaller weight amp and cabinet and a more "hi-fi" result.
I play 80% on bar, and 20% out-side gigs during the summer.

I play Rob Allens deep 5, Sadowsky 5 and a Fodera will arrive in a couples of months.

I play jazz, but also AfroBeat/funk.

So I would like tools able to provide a clean hi-fi sound for the jazz/Rob Allen gigs, but also power/warm sound for funky's /slapp sound, and something in the middle for jazz-rock...
(Maybe I ask for too much...)
I don't want a tube sound.

I am at the end of my search, I spoted two heads :

Puma 900 and Glock Blue Soul.
I feel more atractive by the Blue soul, but decision is not takken yet.

About the speaker, I stopped by the Baer ML 112 and the Bergantino CN 112.

Here where I would like your feedback and thinking about those 4 differents options :

Blue Soul with Berg
Blus Soul with Baer

Puma with Berg
Puma with Baer.

Please not that I can't find local dealer in France to try those amp and cabinet.
And forgive me for my bad english...

Thanks a lot for your help.
 
#2
Just a few quick impressions, based on my experience with the Puma's, the Glock Blue Soul, the ML112 and the CN212. I'm filling in some missing pieces regarding the CN112 and various combinations of the above based on posts by TBers that I am familiar with.

1) I would not recommend the Blue Soul and the ML112/212. The Glock really shines in the mid to upper treble and that is not what the ML112 is about. It would sound 'fine' of course, but those two pieces of gear have totally different design goals. The Glock with the CN cabs is glorious IF you like it very clean, very crisp, and don't ever want upper mid grind or a lot of growl down low.

2) IF you are considering only a single 12 to gig with, the ML112 is going to put out a bit more absolute volume than the CN112. The Puma900, pumping 500 watts into a single ML112 is a thing of beauty.... warm, very present up top without the 'metal tweeter zing' way up top.

In general, the Puma is going to have a bit less deep low end, a bit more 'character' in the midrange (i.e., pleasant mild distortion), and a nice dose of upper mids that you can dial in and out with the very nicely voiced upper mid control. The Glock is HUGE down low (if you bump the low end a bit), and has super clean, hi fi top end (it has two treble controls, a wide Q 4K and a shelving 12K).

If you were doing a CN112, a CN212, or a CN112 x 2, I would recommend the Puma900 myself, but the Glock would also kill if you really wanted a more 'hi fi' tone as we use that term on TB (BIG low end, smooth clean mids, polite upper mids, sparkling top end).

If you were doing an ML112 or ML212, the Puma900 would be it, given you choices listed.

IMO and mostly IME.


PS Your English is fantastic. You don't want to experience my French!
 
#3
KJung, this is a really helping answer !
Thank you very much for that.

If any Baer or Berg have your attention with the Blue Soul,
wich cabinet would you recommand to go with ?

And last question, did you try the Puma 900 with a Markbass 4*10 8ohms ?

I think I will keep this cabinet, just in case of...
 
#4
Yep. I was thinking: Glockenklang Blue Soul + Bergantino CN112...before I even read Ken's post... :hmm:

You want it hi-fi? There's your hi-fi.

Should get a very sweet, very clean tone - with plenty of high end for crystal-clear slapping, and as much low end as you could handle. Get a second CN112, and double your pleasure. :smug:

MM
 
#5
MysticMichael said:
Yep. I was thinking: Glockenklang Blue Soul + Bergantino CN112...before I even read Ken's post... :hmm:

You want it hi-fi? There's your hi-fi.

Should get a very sweet, very clean tone - with plenty of high end for crystal-clear slapping, and as much low end as you could handle. Get a second CN112, and double your pleasure. :smug:

MM
Click to expand...

Sorry, I am not sure to understand well your answer...
Do you think the duo Blue Soul and CNN112 is a good one,
or do you mean it would sound too clear or too "hi-fi" ?
 
#6
I've owned most everything you've mentioned (though not all at the same time). I currently have ML112s and Puma 900 though I usually run Monique/Minnie as the amp so you'll know my bias based on what I've kept. Ken gave a good overview. I really like articulate mids and I find that the Baer cabs do that better than anything else (ymmv). I also find the Rob Allen (I gig a Deep 4) sounds better with the Baer than any previous cabinet I've run.

That said the CN112 is a nice cab and sounds closer to the Baer than the "hi fi" end of the spectrum. It is a pretty even sounding box and everything speaks well. If you're only running one cab the Baer will outperform the CN112. If you're running a pair of the CN112s you've got more headroom. Sonically I find the Baer more mid forward, the Berg to have more low mid push. You can eq either to push the sound around but that is the out of the box vibe of he cabs imho.

Blue Soul wasn't my thing as I really want the mids/upper mids to speak without being strident and the Glock doesn't have eq points in that area in case you need to tweak. It does have a more neutral sound than the Puma, though the Puma isn't that colored compared to say the TC or Aggie heads.

Hard to go wrong with any of them. You almost might want to consider a Berg CN212 as the footprint is the same as the 112 but it'll give you a ton more sound.
 
#7
asbs said:
Sorry, I am not sure to understand well your answer...
Do you think the duo Blue Soul and CNN112 is a good one,
or do you mean it would sound too clear or too "hi-fi" ?
Click to expand...

I'm saying that the Blue Soul + CN112 combination should be a very good one. And yes, the sound quality should be very clear and very hi-fi - but not too much. Those qualities would be good things for you to have, if I understand your musical needs correctly.

If you can do so, you might want to take nostatic's suggestion to get a CN212 cab, instead of a CN112. I'll bet it would sound fantastic, with lots & lots of headroom. :cool:

MM
 
#8
Ah, get it !

Thank you for clearing. My english level sometime put me in a "not sure area"


MysticMichael said:
I'm saying that the Blue Soul + CN112 combination should be a very good one. And yes, the sound quality should be very clear and very hi-fi - but not too much. Those qualities would be good things for you to have, if I understand your musical needs correctly.

If you can do so, you might want to take nostatic's suggestion to get a CN212 cab, instead of a CN112. I'll bet it would sound fantastic, with lots & lots of headroom. :cool:

MM
Click to expand...
 
#9
Thank you for your inputs !

As always, very helpfull !

nostatic said:
I've owned most everything you've mentioned (though not all at the same time). I currently have ML112s and Puma 900 though I usually run Monique/Minnie as the amp so you'll know my bias based on what I've kept. Ken gave a good overview. I really like articulate mids and I find that the Baer cabs do that better than anything else (ymmv). I also find the Rob Allen (I gig a Deep 4) sounds better with the Baer than any previous cabinet I've run.

That said the CN112 is a nice cab and sounds closer to the Baer than the "hi fi" end of the spectrum. It is a pretty even sounding box and everything speaks well. If you're only running one cab the Baer will outperform the CN112. If you're running a pair of the CN112s you've got more headroom. Sonically I find the Baer more mid forward, the Berg to have more low mid push. You can eq either to push the sound around but that is the out of the box vibe of he cabs imho.

Blue Soul wasn't my thing as I really want the mids/upper mids to speak without being strident and the Glock doesn't have eq points in that area in case you need to tweak. It does have a more neutral sound than the Puma, though the Puma isn't that colored compared to say the TC or Aggie heads.

Hard to go wrong with any of them. You almost might want to consider a Berg CN212 as the footprint is the same as the 112 but it'll give you a ton more sound.
Click to expand...
 
#10
asbs said:
KJung, this is a really helping answer !
Thank you very much for that.

If any Baer or Berg have your attention with the Blue Soul,
wich cabinet would you recommand to go with ?

And last question, did you try the Puma 900 with a Markbass 4*10 8ohms ?

I think I will keep this cabinet, just in case of...
Click to expand...

Have not tried any of these heads with the Markbass 410.

Here again would be the three 'optimum' combinations for the basses you have, in my opinion and experience:

1) Puma900/CN212..... this is an all around great combination that will work with any bass. It will do VERY large loud gigs, and the EQ is great with the Rob Allen and of course, the Fodera. Clean and accurate, but not too hi fi (meaning not an overabundance of deep bass and upper treble relative to the midrange. Great for that 'maximum firepower with minimum size and weight' thing.

2) Glock Blue Soul/CN212...... really crisp, wide and 'hi fi'. Super deep lows if you want them, clean relaxed midrange, super clean, extended top end. It won't growl or grind. Kind of like playing through a studio monitor. Just as loud as the Puma900, cleaner, more 'wide and pure' than 'punch'. GREAT with the Fodera. With the RA, MIGHT be a bit 'too much of a good thing' relative to the tighter, more mid present Puma, which allows the RA 'wood' sound to come out a bit.

3) Baer ML112,/Puma900..... great 'smallest cab that can do up to a moderate size gig' rig. Much more upper mid articulate, tighter down low. Puma EQ matches up great. With the Rob Allen, very articulate, tight, woody tone. Top end will be 'brighter in the upper midrange with less upper treble' than the CN cabs, which matches will with the piezo on the RA basses.


So, depending on volume needs and tone profile, these three rigs are IMO 'top of the line'.

If I was forced to make a choice, with the instruments you have, and assuming that, on occasion, I had need for some real volume (i.e., a pop/funk/rock setting in a moderate sized room with no PA support), I would choose (1).
 
#11
Man, your knowledge is impressive !
And thank you for sharing !

I definitively go for the Puma 900 head.

About the cab, I asked a quott from Baer.
I found a CN112 close to me in UE.

Choice is not done yet...
Nostatic feedback drives me a bit more on the Baer side...

But the CN112 is lighter weight...(4,5KG less)




KJung said:
Have not tried any of these heads with the Markbass 410.

Here again would be the three 'optimum' combinations for the basses you have, in my opinion and experience:

1) Puma900/CN212..... this is an all around great combination that will work with any bass. It will do VERY large loud gigs, and the EQ is great with the Rob Allen and of course, the Fodera. Clean and accurate, but not too hi fi (meaning not an overabundance of deep bass and upper treble relative to the midrange. Great for that 'maximum firepower with minimum size and weight' thing.

2) Glock Blue Soul/CN212...... really crisp, wide and 'hi fi'. Super deep lows if you want them, clean relaxed midrange, super clean, extended top end. It won't growl or grind. Kind of like playing through a studio monitor. Just as loud as the Puma900, cleaner, more 'wide and pure' than 'punch'. GREAT with the Fodera. With the RA, MIGHT be a bit 'too much of a good thing' relative to the tighter, more mid present Puma, which allows the RA 'wood' sound to come out a bit.

3) Baer ML112,/Puma900..... great 'smallest cab that can do up to a moderate size gig' rig. Much more upper mid articulate, tighter down low. Puma EQ matches up great. With the Rob Allen, very articulate, tight, woody tone. Top end will be 'brighter in the upper midrange with less upper treble' than the CN cabs, which matches will with the piezo on the RA basses.


So, depending on volume needs and tone profile, these three rigs are IMO 'top of the line'.

If I was forced to make a choice, with the instruments you have, and assuming that, on occasion, I had need for some real volume (i.e., a pop/funk/rock setting in a moderate sized room with no PA support), I would choose (1).
Click to expand...
 

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