Double Bass Putting Air in EUB Sound

[moretolife]

Does anyone have any thoughts for putting air and wood-like tone in the sound of EUB's? I know that you can put acoustic-like strings on or use something to dampen the strings to give a EUB a little more of an acoustic vibe.

I am inviting thoughts to add a little more air.

 

[Hummergeist]

Impulse responses (IRs) can help, if you’re using a pedal or software that supports them.

 

[moretolife]

Is there any particular IR that you have found helpful? Or other things anyone found?

 

[mikeGJ]

3Sigma has some DB IR files. I use the German bass.

 

[Wasnex]

Does anyone have any thoughts for putting air and wood-like tone in the sound of EUB's? I know that you can put acoustic-like strings on or use something to dampen the strings to give a EUB a little more of an acoustic vibe.

I am inviting thoughts to add a little more air.

The sounds we describe as Air and Wood relate to certain frequency ranges. So by providing a certain frequency contour you can add both. I would suggest a parametric EQ of some sort, like the discontinued Empress ParaEQ.

It's very helpful if you have a speaker than can reproduce the required frequency range. This especially relates to the ability to add some "Air". Lot's of cabs have really strong high mids, but but more clangy than airy. For air I think it help if you can dip the range that cause clank, and the you need to frequency range above and below the clank to be strong and even.

In my experience the hard (impossible) part is getting an EUB to decay like an acoustic bass.

Perhaps an IR could help with this...never tried one; so I can't say.

Getting an authentic sound is not only about producing the right frequency spectrum. It's about establishing the proper ratio between the fundamental and each of the overtones. Unfortunately, IMHO EQ can only get you partially there.

Another important factor is the envelope of the fundamental and each of the overtones. By envelope, I mean how each element develops, sustains, and decays.

Could not find any waterfall plots for acoustic upright bass.

But here is one for a fretless bass guitar:

The 1st overtone is an interesting example. It rises quickly peaks, decays a bit, and then peaks a second time. I suspect this is the "wmah" sound you can bet from a fretless bass.

Here is a plot for an EUB:

These plots are from: Bass frequency/waterfall plots: what they mean to rigs | TalkBass.com

 

[moretolife]

This is helpful, keep it coming.

Wasnex, your info is great.
MikeGJ, I was curious about 3Sigma. What are you using to load the IR's? What's you take on actual using the IR's?

 

[mikeGJ]

My thoughts are in this thread: Impulse responses for double bass

I also use muting/dampening, highs rolled off, etc., to try to get "the sound".

 

[moretolife]

mikeGJ, the way you did it may be the answer for me.

Does anyone know if the NU-X pedals with IR loaders has input of 1M or higher? (this is not stated in some of the IR pedal manuals) I was told that piezo pickups are better served with imputes of 1M or higher.

 

[Zbysek]

Does anyone know if the NU-X pedals with IR loaders has input of 1M or higher? (this is not stated in some of the IR pedal manuals) I was told that piezo pickups are better served with imputes of 1M or higher.

I consider it unlikely. I would place preamp with high input impedance first in line...

 

[Hummergeist]

3Sigma has some DB IR files. I use the German bass.

Same here!

 

[Francois Blais]

Does anyone have any thoughts for putting air and wood-like tone in the sound of EUB's? I know that you can put acoustic-like strings on or use something to dampen the strings to give a EUB a little more of an acoustic vibe.

I am inviting thoughts to add a little more air.

I checked your profile's information to see if you're already playing a DB, but it's empty.
Besides proper strings and some damping, the way you pluck the strings with the right hand is a crucial factor to get a more DB-like tone.
If you attack the strings the same way as a BG, you'll have much more work to do to sound right.
I'd make sure the basics are fully met before introducing electronic devices.
But that's just me.

 

[moretolife]

I appreciate the input from everyone, good information.

I recently started playing EUB but has played bass for years, so I know tone. I am doing all the upright techniques, strings and muting, but just wanted to get insight from the upright world on how to add some air and wood to the tone. This has been helpful

BTW, the NU-X pedals all has 1M impedance inputs, great for piezo.

 

[BarfanyShart]

The Fender Studio/Stage modeling amps have an Acoustic Sim setting, which gives you 6 flavors of acoustic IR - and I think they are good. The third setting, in particular, makes my EUB sound just like my old orchestra bass, and my BG sound something like a Rob Allen bass. Yamaha's silent basses also use this IR sim stuff to sound more like a real bass.

I think DB strings are the MOST important thing on an EUB. I don't dampen, because that's just not the sound I like.

 

[Francois Blais]

I think DB strings are the MOST important thing on an EUB.

+1.
I currently have Obligatos on mine.
But orchestral strings like Flexocors, Belcantos or Helicore can be used too.

 

[BarfanyShart]

+1.
I currently have Obligatos on mine.
But orchestral strings like Flexocors, Belcantos or Helicore can be used too.

I got Spiro mittels on mine now, and the heavy string really gets a much better tone out of that piezo.

 

[Happy Steve]

My thoughts are in this thread: Impulse responses for double bass

I just added some thoughts there. Relevant to EUB (Y SLB200) and URB.

 

[DoubleMIDI]

It‘s hard to change the decay of a note. An expander might work, but this is not the same as a natural string decay with a vibrating top that eats up vibrational energy.
What can help are strings that have a shorter sustain. So, not Spiros but gut or something similar.

 

[336v]

People trying to reproduce acoustic sound from not acoustic instrument should just understand fundamentals why it is not posdible. In a normal bass strings vibrate upper carved deck of the instrument, and mostly through the sound posts - the back deck. Resulting sound waves escape though F holes ans are what you hear. They are shaped by the resonant properties and geometry of the volume inside bass, as well as type (e.g. properties) of woods the instrument is made of. NONE of this exists in an EUB. Other than strings, nothing resonates that makes this authentic acoustic sound, and few parts, like a bridge hardly vibrate, since a bridge usually supported by a solid chunk of wood. Vibrating and resonating are two VERY different things. So if a speaker moves air instead of a resonating deck, there is no way to produce the same sound unless an ideal pick up sends to the amp IDENTICAL signal as a good fidelity mic placed near F holes in front of a bass would. But there are just no parts in an EUB that can produce such vibtations, whose electrical equivalent is the same as what comes from the high fidelity mic in front of an acoustic bass. No amount of electronics can replace those parts. One can get close modeling them, but it's not THEM, it's their electronic and/or software models. So get a new but different sound from your EUB, as it is fundamentally different instrument then an ADB, and unless you manage to make resonating properties of the part of an EUB where your pickup is attached to the same as for the real thing, attempts ro replicate acoustic sound will be fruitless. It's not a matter of will or skill of the instrument maker or player, it's just fundamentals and physics behind process of generating and shaping sound. An acoustic bass has no pickups. As soon as you physically attach something directly to a part of an EUB to convert whatever vibtations strings make into electrucal signal (e.g not through air as a mic would do, or your ear would sense), you already introduce a property and a critical variable non-existent in an acoustic instrument. And this [difference] is what you inevitably WILL hear.

 

[Hummergeist]

People trying to reproduce acoustic sound from not acoustic instrument should just understand fundamentals why it is not posdible. In a normal bass strings vibrate upper carved deck of the instrument, and mostly through the sound posts - the back deck. Resulting sound waves escape though F holes ans are what you hear. They are shaped by the resonant properties and geometry of the volume inside bass, as well as type (e.g. properties) of woods the instrument is made of. NONE of this exists in an EUB. Other than strings, nothing resonates that makes this authentic acoustic sound, and few parts, like a bridge hardly vibrate, since a bridge usually supported by a solid chunk of wood. Vibrating and resonating are two VERY different things. So if a speaker moves air instead of a resonating deck, there is no way to produce the same sound unless an ideal pick up sends to the amp IDENTICAL signal as a good fidelity mic placed near F holes in front of a bass would. But there are just no parts in an EUB that can produce such vibtations, whose electrical equivalent is the same as what comes from the high fidelity mic in front of an acoustic bass. No amount of electronics can replace those parts. One can get close modeling them, but it's not THEM, it's their electronic and/or software models. So get a new but different sound from your EUB, as it is fundamentally different instrument then an ADB, and unless you manage to make resonating properties of the part of an EUB where your pickup is attached to the same as for the real thing, attempts ro replicate acoustic sound will be fruitless. It's not a matter of will or skill of the instrument maker or player, it's just fundamentals and physics behind process of generating and shaping sound. An acoustic bass has no pickups. As soon as you physically attach something directly to a part of an EUB to convert whatever vibtations strings make into electrucal signal (e.g not through air as a mic would do, or your ear would sense), you already introduce a property and a critical variable non-existent in an acoustic instrument. And this [difference] is what you inevitably WILL hear.

These are great observations. I've got two EUBs, and I have ventured down a few rabbit holes, trying to make them more upright-like. But what I've also learned is that they behave like any other electric bass - an almost-there sound created at home can be completely useless in a room with other players. I enjoy my modelling software pedals for recording and practising, but first thing I do in a group situation is turn them all off!

 

[turf3]

I appreciate the input from everyone, good information.

I recently started playing EUB but has played bass for years, so I know tone. I am doing all the upright techniques, strings and muting, but just wanted to get insight from the upright world on how to add some air and wood to the tone. This has been helpful

BTW, the NU-X pedals all has 1M impedance inputs, great for piezo.

Does "played bass for years" mean ELECTRIC bass? Because right off the bat the right hand technique is very different.

But let's face it, the EUB is either a fretless solidbody electric bass with a really long scale played vertically, or it's a fretless hollow body electric bass with a really long scale and a teeny tiny body cavity played vertically. Even played with good double-bass left and right hand technique, you're EMULATING the sound of a large wooden box using electronics, and accepting the fact that it doesn't sound exactly the same, in return for convenience of transport. I'm not sure that you can ever really make it sound JUST LIKE an upright bass being played without amplification in a room right there in front of you.