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QSC PLX v. Crest Audio CA Series
- Thread starter Folmeister
- Start date
- Status
Wow, I was only going to come in here to post my personal experience. I swore I wasn't going to read all of the posts. Then I saw Jim actually chimed in! 
I knew he watched over the writings in here but I never expected him to post. Anyway, I knew he'd have to feel strongly about whatever he would say here. In my experience I have to agree here with Jim.
I've owned a Stewart 2.1, a Crest ST2000 and now a Crest CA6 (which I just got yesterday). I think that the Stewart is a great light weight amp. I has quite a powefull punch and some very respectable low end. The Crest ST2000. I was just talking to a friend about this amp today. We both felt that it got plenty loud but it just didn't "surround you" and fill a room like other amps can. It also sounded thin to both of us.
Now, as for the CA6, this thing has knocked me out. Jim, Corey and Justin over at RockCity (my boys!!!) told me to check out a Crest CA series amp. They've always loved the Stewarts but they said the CA amps blew the Stewarts away. Ok, I don't always agree with them but I figured with all the talk and knowing that you recommend them I'd check em out. Man am I glad that I did. I was shocked at the sheer girth of the sound. It's a very commanding sound that I just could never get out of the other two amps that I mentioned. I thought I'd spring for the CA9 but there's just NO WAY I'll ever need more volume. I'm sold man. Now I just need an HT322 and I'm good to go.
Looking at what I just wrote I need to say that I in no way feel that I need to side with Jim because of my respect for his business and products. It's been proven to me through my own experience. I've got great ears and my sound has always been very important to me. A great sound allows me to play more effortlessly and more passionately. I consider the CA6 an improvement in the right direction.
Cheers.
Andy Dow.
I knew he watched over the writings in here but I never expected him to post. Anyway, I knew he'd have to feel strongly about whatever he would say here. In my experience I have to agree here with Jim.I've owned a Stewart 2.1, a Crest ST2000 and now a Crest CA6 (which I just got yesterday). I think that the Stewart is a great light weight amp. I has quite a powefull punch and some very respectable low end. The Crest ST2000. I was just talking to a friend about this amp today. We both felt that it got plenty loud but it just didn't "surround you" and fill a room like other amps can. It also sounded thin to both of us.
Now, as for the CA6, this thing has knocked me out. Jim, Corey and Justin over at RockCity (my boys!!!) told me to check out a Crest CA series amp. They've always loved the Stewarts but they said the CA amps blew the Stewarts away. Ok, I don't always agree with them but I figured with all the talk and knowing that you recommend them I'd check em out. Man am I glad that I did. I was shocked at the sheer girth of the sound. It's a very commanding sound that I just could never get out of the other two amps that I mentioned. I thought I'd spring for the CA9 but there's just NO WAY I'll ever need more volume. I'm sold man. Now I just need an HT322 and I'm good to go.
Looking at what I just wrote I need to say that I in no way feel that I need to side with Jim because of my respect for his business and products. It's been proven to me through my own experience. I've got great ears and my sound has always been very important to me. A great sound allows me to play more effortlessly and more passionately. I consider the CA6 an improvement in the right direction.
Cheers.
Andy Dow.
This has been an extremely informative thread. Jim and Bob, I'm glad you disagree, I learned a lot. 
It's good to see dissenting opinions of gear without gear bashing.
So far as amps go, If I wanted light weight, I wouldn't own a few all tube trace elliot heads (and boy, does a V4 or V6 sound good through an NV610). For my rack setup, I like the CA6. It just sounds better than the Stewart I was using before. Not just louder....fuller.
But nothing beats tubes IMO.
It's good to see dissenting opinions of gear without gear bashing.
So far as amps go, If I wanted light weight, I wouldn't own a few all tube trace elliot heads (and boy, does a V4 or V6 sound good through an NV610). For my rack setup, I like the CA6. It just sounds better than the Stewart I was using before. Not just louder....fuller.
But nothing beats tubes IMO.
Jim & Bob, thanks for a very interesting discussion. Little by little, I've gleaned some knowledge about power amps just by reading these types of posts.
I will say I certainly agree with Jim; not because I use (and love) his cabinets, but because I was at one time powering them with a PLX2402. Even running the PLX2402 in mono-bridge mode I was experiencing frequent clipping problems and a lack of headroom. I also experienced these same problems powering my previous cabinets with my PLX. Once I bought a Crest CA-9 the clipping problems decreased almost entirely, and thus I have a noticeable increase in headroom. I really noticed the PLX's clipping problem once I started playing a bass with a B-string.
As I posted earlier to Folmeister, I've just bought a Demeter HBP-1 preamp. It's spec sheet shows it's output voltage is 250mv. The Demeter preamp's output matches up perfectly with my CA-9, which has an input sensitivity of .775 volts.
For Folmeister's sake, would the Demeter's 250mv be enough to adequately drive a PLX-Series amp which has an input sensitivity of 1.7 volts?
I'm asking this because I don't (as of yet) know how to convert mili-volts to volts. -Sorry if that's a silly question.
At any rate, thanks again for the info.
- Derwin (A.K.A Arthur U. Poon) Moss
I will say I certainly agree with Jim; not because I use (and love) his cabinets, but because I was at one time powering them with a PLX2402. Even running the PLX2402 in mono-bridge mode I was experiencing frequent clipping problems and a lack of headroom. I also experienced these same problems powering my previous cabinets with my PLX. Once I bought a Crest CA-9 the clipping problems decreased almost entirely, and thus I have a noticeable increase in headroom. I really noticed the PLX's clipping problem once I started playing a bass with a B-string.
As I posted earlier to Folmeister, I've just bought a Demeter HBP-1 preamp. It's spec sheet shows it's output voltage is 250mv. The Demeter preamp's output matches up perfectly with my CA-9, which has an input sensitivity of .775 volts.
For Folmeister's sake, would the Demeter's 250mv be enough to adequately drive a PLX-Series amp which has an input sensitivity of 1.7 volts?
I'm asking this because I don't (as of yet) know how to convert mili-volts to volts. -Sorry if that's a silly question.
At any rate, thanks again for the info.
- Derwin (A.K.A Arthur U. Poon) Moss
J
Mr Bergantino has it dead to rights...
No Free Lunch...ever, you wanna play bass you gotta move air, That is all. Big transformers, lots of current, big speakers in big cabinets equal big sound. Start going smaller and your sound goes with it.
Mr Bergantino has it dead to rights...
No Free Lunch...ever, you wanna play bass you gotta move air, That is all. Big transformers, lots of current, big speakers in big cabinets equal big sound. Start going smaller and your sound goes with it.
Bob Lee (QSC)
In case you missed it, I work for QSC Audio!
- Jul 3, 2001
- 12,668
- 2,036
- 67
- Disclosures
- Former Technical Communications Developer, QSC Audio
Bob Lee (QSC)
In case you missed it, I work for QSC Audio!
- Jul 3, 2001
- 12,668
- 2,036
- 67
- Disclosures
- Former Technical Communications Developer, QSC Audio
Jim Bergantino said:
Jim, my main claims are and have always been that in order to compare amps properly, you at the very least need to match their gains, and preferably listen to them blind. These are not unsubstantiated. Otherwise, you do not control for biases. Differences in sighted versus blind tests are well documented and not unsubstantiated and suggest that even well-intentioned listeners are influenced greatly by expectation bias, visual cues, etc.
Listening tests with controls for biases, have tended to show differences, if any, are small. Again, these are not unsubstantiated.
Blast me for psychoacoustic phenomena and insisting on fair listening tests if you like; I guess we'll just have to be disappointed in each other.
Chef
In Memoriam
I'm real happy with the qsc/plx Bob steeered me to. I did some online shopping, and to buy similar power rated crest I'd have to spend nearly250% more money...I'd have to be real dang impressed by the tonal differences at same db levels to want to go there.
I would like to a/b them sometime just for my own education!
I would like to a/b them sometime just for my own education!
Hmmmm...
Very interesting.
I don't know that I agree with ANY of the reasoning as to the "why" and "why not" .....although I do NOT disagree with some of the conclusions as to what sounds "ballsier".
Some of the reasons "why" that have been given are actually completely unsupportable, technically, IMO. But that isn't to say that the effect isn't real.
If it SOUNDS ballsier, it IS ballsier.......no matter what the meters say.....
I am with 44ME, there isn't any reason at all why a switching power supply HAS to sound worse in any way than a conventional supply. But many at least *seem* to.
I have my own ideas as to why, and they aren't the same as the ones given so far....but they should actually be obvious to anyone who carefully looks at the typical heavy iron supply vs the typical SMPS. Take a look at the design and then think about how the speaker load is driven, and some of them just leap out at you.
I confess, I am suspicious of any effects which are so subtle as to require a double-blind test to avoid confusion. Mind you, I admit that double blind tests are quite valid and superior.
But if it isn't more obvious than that, it is pretty unlikely to make any difference on the gig.
Very interesting.
I don't know that I agree with ANY of the reasoning as to the "why" and "why not" .....although I do NOT disagree with some of the conclusions as to what sounds "ballsier".
Some of the reasons "why" that have been given are actually completely unsupportable, technically, IMO. But that isn't to say that the effect isn't real.
If it SOUNDS ballsier, it IS ballsier.......no matter what the meters say.....
I am with 44ME, there isn't any reason at all why a switching power supply HAS to sound worse in any way than a conventional supply. But many at least *seem* to.
I have my own ideas as to why, and they aren't the same as the ones given so far....but they should actually be obvious to anyone who carefully looks at the typical heavy iron supply vs the typical SMPS. Take a look at the design and then think about how the speaker load is driven, and some of them just leap out at you.
I confess, I am suspicious of any effects which are so subtle as to require a double-blind test to avoid confusion. Mind you, I admit that double blind tests are quite valid and superior.
But if it isn't more obvious than that, it is pretty unlikely to make any difference on the gig.
Passinwind
I know nothing.
- Dec 3, 2003
- 23,064
- 45,978
- Disclosures
- Designer/Toaster Tech @ Passinwind Electronics
Chef said:
Just a lonely data point, but I just pulled a fried Carvin DC 2000 from a subwoofer application in a nightclub, and tried my PLX 2402 and my Crown K2 back to back. Nobody heard a whit of difference in that application (both sounded better than the Carvin though), so I sold the club the K2, since I never gigged with it due to the weight difference. I owned two K2s at one time, but I frankly never heard anything to make me keep them around.
Anyhow, I'm with Jerrold for the most part. I don't actually care about the whys all that much, although they are kind of interesting to my Spock side, I guess. I just use whatever works, and carry on, for the most part.
As far as trusting your ears, I'm an old dog sound guy, and I've pulled the "pretend to move the fader, keep 'em happy" stunt too many times to believe that trusting your ears is the end-all.
Passinwind said:As far as trusting your ears, I'm an old dog sound guy, and I've pulled the "pretend to move the fader, keep 'em happy" stunt too many times to believe that trusting your ears is the end-all.
LOL!
Or, keep an extra channel open, stick a shorted cable in the input, tape label it with the name of the fussiest person on stage.....turn anything on it that makes them happy!
(because there is such a thing as a band manager)
Chef
In Memoriam
I have both a QSC PLX3002 and a Crest CA-9. I think you can hear a difference, but I don't think it is as big as people make it out to be. However I do hear a difference.
My experience, and I believe that of others here, is that you don't have to get similar power ratings to get similar results, so this isn't a fair economic comparison. My Crown MT-1200 is half the rated power of my PLX-3002, but the Crown is every bit as loud, and feels ballsier and "headroomier" than the QSC.Chef said:
metron said:Hey Jerrold! Like passinwind my spock side is a bit curious. I thought about how speakers are driven for a second and nothing leapt out at me.So whats your take?
Well, remember that I am not exactly unbiased....and if I DID have a good idea, someone else is entitled to first shot at it...
But, my Yoda side says...... "Curious you are? Then, think you must!"
- Apr 17, 2003
- 331
- 14
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- Disclosures
- Keith McMillan Instruments, SIT Strings, Accugroove Cabinets
I must say that I have a PLX2402 and am very pleased with the sound. I haven't had to drive it hard enough to experience the weak bass that has been alluded to. I have consistantly heard the sledgehammer in the back, and pissed off my guitarist that wants to be the loudest thing on stage when I'm taking a solo. But I am supremely curious so I just called a friend of mine that has a CA9. We are going to do a little comparison in the next week or so. I don't tend to go by what other people think. I like to know for myself.
B Easy
Myron
B Easy
Myron
Nice Jerrold! 
When I was shopping for power amps I mentally A/Bd PLX v CA amps being that I wouldnt actually be able to A/B them before buying. I couldnt justify the weight of the CA to myself so PLX it was and Im very happy with the amp. I simply told myself if I was going to carry around a 50 lb power amp I might as well just carry around an SVT (which someday I will)
When I was shopping for power amps I mentally A/Bd PLX v CA amps being that I wouldnt actually be able to A/B them before buying. I couldnt justify the weight of the CA to myself so PLX it was and Im very happy with the amp. I simply told myself if I was going to carry around a 50 lb power amp I might as well just carry around an SVT (which someday I will)
metron said:Nice Jerrold!
I simply told myself if I was going to carry around a 50 lb power amp I might as well just carry around an SVT (which someday I will)
Ha! You think so now, but wait til you actually start trying to move that SVT from point A to point B. A 50lb CA9 feels light by comparison. I know, I used to own one...and it's amazing how fast your bandmates seem to vanish when it's time to move the SVT.
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