Over the last year or so much of my work has involved playing in a band where I was initially using mostly bass guitar, but rather quickly the double bass took its place, especially once the greater sonic possibilities became apparent. The lineup of the band is vocals/guitar, guitar/vocals, keys/vocals, double bass/bass guitar, and drum kit. The music is very varied and quite tricky to define, but on the myspace is described as "Pop / Rock / Acoustic", which is close enough 
The band are all excellent musicians, and while the volume can get pretty rocky, it is by no means overly loud onstage. We usually play halls varying in capacity from 200-500 people, and there is always good front of house and monitors. We have a soundman who really knows his stuff and the music, and room permitting, it is usually possible to get a good band sound both onstage and off. Despite this, I have been experiencing real difficulty getting a good double bass sound for the purpose of monitoring myself onstage.
I think I've been able to get a good pizzicato sound, and indeed a recent live recording confirmed this. However, The arco always sounds terrible from my point of view. It's apparently ok from the front of house speakers, but what I hear is really offputting, and I have to employ huge psychological tricks to "hear through it" and keep on playing as best I can. It just never sounds like the instrument does acoustically; there is too much scratchiness, but if I remove too much top, it is too bassy, especially for lines played on the G string. I never seem able to get the balance correct!
It's beginning to really frustrate me because the bow works well in this music, but I never think I am doing the music or myself justice with the current setup, which is;
Reasonable-ish Zeller double bass
Fishman BP-100 pickup
Bass Pod XT Live
I use the Pod to add a bit of valve amp simulation, which seems to help quite a bit. The output from the Pod is then split two ways, one goes to the PA, the other two my amp, and Eden cxc110 with additional d112xlt speaker. I place this stack on table facing my ears to avoid feedback and give me direct sound. There is usally very little of the bass going through the other musician's monitors. I usually do without a monitor because I get sufficient foldback from everyone else's.
The setup seems fairly elaborate, but I'm just not getting good results for arco. The tiniest intonation errors scream out in a way they just don't when I'm playing the instrument acoustically. The horrible sound makes me cringe. It's just not the sound I hear in my head, or when I play the instrument acoustically. And as I turn up the volume, the sound just gets worse. I find that I'm either hearing myself too much, or too little, in which case I only hear myself when I go out of tune - not good! And the sound is just wrong; it's as if I'm hearing the bad overtones, or something akin to that.
To help avoid feedback I literally put a sock in the f-holes.
I've tried using a clip on microphone (golden bullet) and various larger mics mounted on an H-clamp, which works for some situations such as playing in a pit band or orchestra, but just isn't really suitable for higher volume situations such as this one. In any case, the mic can never really work as foldback for myself due to feedback issues, I have to rely on the pickup for that.
When I've had the opportunity to use other amps, I've found better results with Ashdowns, Aguilar, and Trace Elliots. Ampeg 8x10 speakers sound ok, but the Ampeg amps don't. I've tried using a Hartke 2000 amp with my Eden speakers; great with bass guitar, not so good with double bass, although it may be worth another try...
I have a K&K golden trinity preamp, which is necessary for the golden bullet mic, but I wasn't entirely convinced it made a huge difference to the pickup - the Eden preamp has a 1 megohm input in any case.
I took my NS Design WAV4 EUB out on the road with the band for a bit, which solved a lot of the sound problems, but it is not the ideal instrument for arco playing as it is a "stick" type instrument and I can't get the same stability as I do with the DB. The lack of a neck heel is also a problem.
Something I may try at next rehearsal is placing a small active monitor at head level point right at me; but I still suspect the arco will sound horrid. Others have suggested getting in ear monitors.
Woe oh woe! It is frustrating to have the opportunity to use the double bass in this creative way thwarted by bad onstage sound. I know of a few double bassists who have played successfully in similar situations, such as Danny Thompson and Shannon Birchall from the John Butler Trio, so presumably it can be done.
I'd really welcome any advice and suggestions as to how a good amplified arco sound could be achieved. I don't have a huge budget, but if necessary I could stretch to a little bit of gear to help the cause.
Any help much appreciated!
Jennifer
The band are all excellent musicians, and while the volume can get pretty rocky, it is by no means overly loud onstage. We usually play halls varying in capacity from 200-500 people, and there is always good front of house and monitors. We have a soundman who really knows his stuff and the music, and room permitting, it is usually possible to get a good band sound both onstage and off. Despite this, I have been experiencing real difficulty getting a good double bass sound for the purpose of monitoring myself onstage.
I think I've been able to get a good pizzicato sound, and indeed a recent live recording confirmed this. However, The arco always sounds terrible from my point of view. It's apparently ok from the front of house speakers, but what I hear is really offputting, and I have to employ huge psychological tricks to "hear through it" and keep on playing as best I can. It just never sounds like the instrument does acoustically; there is too much scratchiness, but if I remove too much top, it is too bassy, especially for lines played on the G string. I never seem able to get the balance correct!
It's beginning to really frustrate me because the bow works well in this music, but I never think I am doing the music or myself justice with the current setup, which is;
Reasonable-ish Zeller double bass
Fishman BP-100 pickup
Bass Pod XT Live
I use the Pod to add a bit of valve amp simulation, which seems to help quite a bit. The output from the Pod is then split two ways, one goes to the PA, the other two my amp, and Eden cxc110 with additional d112xlt speaker. I place this stack on table facing my ears to avoid feedback and give me direct sound. There is usally very little of the bass going through the other musician's monitors. I usually do without a monitor because I get sufficient foldback from everyone else's.
The setup seems fairly elaborate, but I'm just not getting good results for arco. The tiniest intonation errors scream out in a way they just don't when I'm playing the instrument acoustically. The horrible sound makes me cringe. It's just not the sound I hear in my head, or when I play the instrument acoustically. And as I turn up the volume, the sound just gets worse. I find that I'm either hearing myself too much, or too little, in which case I only hear myself when I go out of tune - not good! And the sound is just wrong; it's as if I'm hearing the bad overtones, or something akin to that.
To help avoid feedback I literally put a sock in the f-holes.
I've tried using a clip on microphone (golden bullet) and various larger mics mounted on an H-clamp, which works for some situations such as playing in a pit band or orchestra, but just isn't really suitable for higher volume situations such as this one. In any case, the mic can never really work as foldback for myself due to feedback issues, I have to rely on the pickup for that.
When I've had the opportunity to use other amps, I've found better results with Ashdowns, Aguilar, and Trace Elliots. Ampeg 8x10 speakers sound ok, but the Ampeg amps don't. I've tried using a Hartke 2000 amp with my Eden speakers; great with bass guitar, not so good with double bass, although it may be worth another try...
I have a K&K golden trinity preamp, which is necessary for the golden bullet mic, but I wasn't entirely convinced it made a huge difference to the pickup - the Eden preamp has a 1 megohm input in any case.
I took my NS Design WAV4 EUB out on the road with the band for a bit, which solved a lot of the sound problems, but it is not the ideal instrument for arco playing as it is a "stick" type instrument and I can't get the same stability as I do with the DB. The lack of a neck heel is also a problem.
Something I may try at next rehearsal is placing a small active monitor at head level point right at me; but I still suspect the arco will sound horrid. Others have suggested getting in ear monitors.
Woe oh woe! It is frustrating to have the opportunity to use the double bass in this creative way thwarted by bad onstage sound. I know of a few double bassists who have played successfully in similar situations, such as Danny Thompson and Shannon Birchall from the John Butler Trio, so presumably it can be done.
I'd really welcome any advice and suggestions as to how a good amplified arco sound could be achieved. I don't have a huge budget, but if necessary I could stretch to a little bit of gear to help the cause.
Any help much appreciated!
Jennifer
